Ran across this and thought I'd share it here.
Paints a fairly gloomy outlook for motorcycling in the coming years/decades.
http://beta.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-motorcycle-summit-20171214-story.html
IMO, the info is addressed in a very good, objective way and makes extensive use of demographic and socio-economic factors.
I suggest clicking on the link in the article and reading the material. In particular the first and third papers. Trust me, it will resonate in one way or another (or several ways) with virtually every person on MotorcycleAlabama.
Here's the link in case you miss it in the article: https://spaces.hightail.com/receive/SdhSlwwnDH
It was interesting to see that those aged 50 and older account for almost 50% of all motorcycle ownership in the US.
Sadly, it leaves me with the impression that, as a general population group, Millennials are more concerned with social media, gaming, cellphones, "hanging out", etc. with a comparatively smaller interest in things like motorcycles, trucks, guns, etc.
I agree with everything you said except Millennials and trucks. Every "supposed to be country" song out there aimed at that generation seems to be about trucks. :'(. Maybe that's the Big Three trying to reel them back in, I don't know...
And the new shiny dirt bikes are $10k!! Can't show off on social media unless you have the newest and shiniest toy!
So they've been selling 450-500k new units per year consistently for the last nine years, and the market is in a death spiral?
::)
I'd call that a stable market.
I hope the industry uses their fear and foreboding to continue coming up with interesting products though. Good to see things like the Milwaukee Eight, the Tenere 700, the Africa Twin, etc. I'm liking the adaptation and innovation, for the most part. I don't personally care for automatic transmissions or 3-wheelers, but if it gets people riding, I'll be happy.
One thing they said which I do agree with... there are a LOT of shitty dealers out there. Won't negotiate, won't come off MSRP, won't learn about their products, won't engage the riding community, won't listen to what customers want, try to upsell at every chance, judge people as soon as they walk in the door, treat them like they don't know anything, etc. Those dealers will not change or improve. They know that people will buy what they want, when they are ready, and most of them have already done their research online. The rest are just browsing, in their minds. What distinguishes a good dealer in my mind are the ones that will talk and joke in a non-pressuring way even though they know you aren't likely to purchase that day. Now if they are busy, they can't always do that, I know. But many times, they aren't that busy. Professional sales people know the value of relationship-building. You don't always know when it will pay off, but it often does.
Quote from: Brian A on December 16, 2017, 08:37:32 PM
Ran across this and thought I'd share it here.
Paints a fairly gloomy outlook for motorcycling in the coming years/decades.
http://beta.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-motorcycle-summit-20171214-story.html
IMO, the info is addressed in a very good, objective way and makes extensive use of demographic and socio-economic factors.
I suggest clicking on the link in the article and reading the material. In particular the first and third papers. Trust me, it will resonate in one way or another (or several ways) with virtually every person on MotorcycleAlabama.
Here's the link in case you miss it in the article: https://spaces.hightail.com/receive/SdhSlwwnDH
It was interesting to see that those aged 50 and older account for almost 50% of all motorcycle ownership in the US.
Sadly, it leaves me with the impression that, as a general population group, Millennials are more concerned with social media, gaming, cellphones, "hanging out", etc. with a comparatively smaller interest in things like motorcycles, trucks, guns, etc.
Yep, read it somewhere else.
What I have to say sorta takes all the blame being lain at the Millennial's feet and puts it somewhere else though.
First, 3 questions, 1. When did you start to ride? 2. Who bought your first bike? 3. How much did it cost?
My answers, 1. 13, until I got caught, then 14, when I got my motorcycle license. 2. I did. Cut grass for almost a full summer and used the money I earned to buy it. 3. $35.00 used...from the kid who lived behind us.
Now for a little background.
I did not always, since birth, wanted a motorcycle. It wasn't until my dad retired from the Air Force and we moved into "Civilian" life that I wanted a motorcycle. What caused this? Well a lot of my new friends or their older brothers had motorcycles. You didn't see them living on a military base but in civilian life, they were everywhere. So I wanted one.
Also, there were plenty of ways as a young teenager, to earn your own money. Cutting grass, sweeping floors at a store, heck you could even work on a construction site. 2 of my "new" friends did. It was clean-up type work. Heck, even I did once my dad started a sheetrocking business. It kept me in gas money. Now $35.00 is probably what, $150.00 in today's money? $200.00? What kind of running 85cc motorcycle can you buy for that kind of money?
Also, how many parents of teenagers would LET them have a motorcycle to ride on the street at 14 today. Even though it is still legal to do so?
Times have changed since the early 70's. (When I was a young teen) Parents have changed too. When was the last time you saw a group of kids out playing at dusk? That use to be a everyday thing. Did kids stop playing? Or did the parents stopped letting them play?
Now, how can we change some of that? One of the only way's I see is to talk to them. (both parents, kids, young adults in their 20's, heck anyone who ask you about your motorcycle)
Talk to them about motorcycles...tell them how you feel when you ride, the friends you have made, the fun you have had...let them see your passion.
Passion is contagious, so spread it around.
Other than that/\ I got nothing. ;)
This issue has been extensively discussed on other forums. On of the things that has been brought out is that this is not an issue in much of the world outside of the USA and Canada. Motorcycle sales in Asia dwarf the small numbers sold here.
Having pointed that out, motorcycling is in a decline here where we live. I agree with the article in that there is no magic bullet.
I see several signs of this decline. In many Powersports dealers motorcycles take up much less space on the floor than ATVs, Side by Sides and PWC.
There is no longer a big motorcycle show here in the southeast and the number nationally has decreased.
While the world gets a huge selection of small motorcycles and scooters, we only get a few models here.
Dealers no longer stock much in the way of riding gear. Sure you can get it online but for a potential new rider it makes it much harder to figure out what to get if and when they buy a new bike.
When I go to motorcycle destinations like TWoS, Deals Gap, etc, I see mostly old riders.
However, people are still buying and riding bikes. The biggest threat as mentioned will be autonomous vehicles and future laws. While autonomous vehicles will have to recognize motorcycles as well as bicycles and pedestrians, and increasingly risk adverse society may pass laws that do not favor motorcycles.
I just hope this happens far enough into the future to not affect my riding.
How much of the popularity of motorcycles between the USA and other countries is down to the different view of its purpose? I see it as functional, affordable transportation in countries like Asia, and almost completely a frivolity/recreational activity here. Which makes it affordable to those who have disposable income. I actually started riding because I'm a hippie at heart and wanted to do my part to save gas as a natural resource. I see the difference between function and recreation impacting the need for bigger and better as well as impacting the amount of shiny, dangly tassels. Affordability is in direct relation to the image they want to portray rather than function.
loom at how much emphasis is put on $100,000 "choppers" in today's marketing. an entry level "-decent " cruiser is 700-900 lbs and comes with a five or seven year loan. the motorcycling industry has made fun of scooters (the most simple/fun, ever) and smaller cc bikes for decades now. they have perpetuated the myth that painting something black, making it obnoxiously loud, and ruining it's handling, is cool. every single motorcycling show has glamorized the slowest, lowest, loudest bike is desirable for so long I can't remember.
there is not one single show/movie/commercial that involves the pleasures of riding.
there is not one single skills building channel. you are either a loud cruiser guy, or you are a fan of watching super sport gods of speed, there is no in between, no middle ground, in the media.
I'm not going to blame the consumers because they're damned good at financing things. hell they finance phones and TVs now, something I never thought I would see happen.
if the motorcycling industry can't sell to a public that finances TVs /phones / chairs (ya, I've seen some one finance a highchairs) on a regular basis, it's their own fault.
that "meet the nicest people on a Honda" campaign was genius, and true to life. the idiot marketing teams that have been trying to sell goofy looking dudes and dudettes (look in the mirror everyone!) the concept that getting a tribal tattoo, a loud bike, and some wallet chains would improve your chances with the opposite sex.... deserve their failures. there's only so long you can cash in on the faux , eventually you have to get back to selling FUN,
Manufacturers follow the trends that are followed by the people and the people make up the buyers of product. What has captured the interests of the people in the US? Garish spectacle. The "idiot marketing teams see this and give the US market exactly what it has shown them interest it the most.
What has the motorcycle industry gotten in return for listening to the US in regards to any surveys? They heard the cries to bring their Japanese and European market high end, small displacement sportbikes and no one was willing to but them because they cost too much. They heard the cries to bring back practical motorcycles only to hear us whine that they were too generic. They heard us call for affordable bikes, only to hear us whine that they didn't have more top level type components. They heard the cries for innovative products only to hear people complain that the tried and true was effective and that we weren't willing to embrace the new.
In essence, they've sunk untold millions trying to give the US what it SAYS it wants, only to have the US reject it when it arrives.
Quote from: DachshundUberAlles on December 17, 2017, 12:03:18 PM
...In essence, they've sunk untold millions trying to give the US what it SAYS it wants, only to have the US reject it when it arrives.
Sorry, but this looks like another attempt at blaming consumers.
There are over 300 million people in the USA, and we are not all alike. They sold some sportbikes, but maybe not as many as they hoped. They sold some practical bikes, but not as many as they hoped. They sold some affordable bikes, but not as many as they hoped. See where this is going?
I've worked for several large corporations in my life, and one thing that they have all had in common is that they are hopelessly optimistic when launching new products and services. They always over-estimate when forecasting. They will ignore the last ten years of data every time and convince themselves that this time, it will be better, more successful. Nobody told Yamaha to build 25,000 Bolts except some optimistic moron in the Yamaha Marketing department.
Good points, Glenn. I do think that the marketing departments effect how "non" riders see the sport and either do or do not spark an interest. I agree, more marketing the "fun" bits, not the image mongering, would increase interest and thus sales.
Quote from: kylepeterson on December 17, 2017, 10:29:34 AM
that "meet the nicest people on a Honda" campaign was genius, and true to life. the idiot marketing teams that have been trying to sell goofy looking dudes and dudettes (look in the mirror everyone!) the concept that getting a tribal tattoo, a loud bike, and some wallet chains would improve your chances with the opposite sex.... deserve their failures. there's only so long you can cash in on the faux , eventually you have to get back to selling FUN,
I'm not sure these commercials would work today.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2e/You_meet_the_nicest_people_on_a_Honda.jpg)
.
(http://www.motorcycledaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/092716top-i.jpg)
But I do agree with what you posted. Bring back small, inexpensive and fun. The Grom was a runaway sales success.
I'm also a big fan of small scooters but scooter sales are as bad if not worse than motorcycles sales here in North America. Of course it might help if they tried a little marketing help to sell them.
Yep, good funny motorcycle commercials are a little rare these days.
I do think a commercial like this one would;
1. Stick in your brain.
2. Get non-motorcycle riders talking.
3. Might actually get them to look out for us.
Maybe this could be talked about in the next ABATE/MSF meeting?
cough, cough, @KrisCook :D The message is at the very end...no pun intended.
"Optimistic moron"? How about Yamaha built so many of that particular bike because they saw so much interest being paid to that style and wanted to offer what people were actually showing interest? On another thread in here, 'Lawnmower' stated that he's going to build some Café style bikes for the "hipsters" in the area. Is he being an "optimistic moron"?
The manufacturers offer a staggering array of styles for the public, and they're not selling nearly as many of ANY of them as they hoped. I' spent the majority of my adult life in the motorcycle industry. I've seen and heard customers during that time. They talk up big about what they want and what they'll buy. Then the time to put up the cash, they have an all too common habit of not following through.
And to be blunt, none of the manufacturers seem to be having trouble moving UTVs, so it would seem they have a pretty good idea what the US buying public wants. Perhaps the anger being expressed here (and on other motorcycle forums) is that the vehicles WE like are fading in comparison to those we don't.
I think one problem with motorcycle commercials on T.V. these days is...there aren't any.
I can remember as a kid in the late 70's through mid 80's seeing motorcycle commercials regularly on television (four networks and a handful of cable channels).
Remember the jingles?
"Kawasaki let's the good times roll" and
"Follow the leader, he's on a Honda"And there were testosterone-stirring ads for the V65 Magna and the V-MAX, and Honda's "Even the Ninja hides from the Hurricane" ad from the CBR's launch.
And then there was the commercial for the first bike I ever owned (well, my parents
technically owned it)...
Although I think the mere hinting of testosterone is a put-off and offensive to the generation the manufacturers are trying to market to now.
Quote from: springer on December 17, 2017, 03:36:47 PM
Yep, good funny motorcycle commercials are a little rare these days.
I do think a commercial like this one would;
1. Stick in your brain.
2. Get non-motorcycle riders talking.
3. Might actually get them to look out for us.
Maybe this could be talked about in the next ABATE/MSF meeting?
cough, cough, @KrisCook :D The message is at the very end...no pun intended.
Dude, I'd ride around Birmingham naked until I got thrown in jail, if someone could assure me that it would cut Alabama's motorcycle fatality rate in half every year!
Well a little bit of Google revels this from 2010-2016
https://www.statista.com/statistics/252261/us-motorcycle-salesin-units/
A pretty steady up-growth in sales. 2016 slacked off a bit though.
And I do have to agree, blaming the consumer is not the right way to go.
We buy what we want, when we want. According to the shop that I bought my 2017 Honda Africa Twin at, what we want is the higher end 4x4 type of vehicles that are bling out. They sale more of them than anything else. THAT is the reason they carry more 4x4's now.
BTW, see if you recognize the actor in this one. :D
Quote from: KrisCook on December 17, 2017, 04:24:53 PM
Dude, I'd ride around Birmingham naked until I got thrown in jail, if someone could assure me that it would cut Alabama's motorcycle fatality rate in half every year!
You need to show it at the next meeting! ;)
A funny one like that would get folks talking and the distribution of the video/commercial could be done inexpensively.
No real need to spend the money to put it on T.V., cause who watches TV? ;)
I would spread it around on social media (with a request to "Share" it), Youtube, car, truck, and motorcycle forums.
I think the statistic that the industry is most concerned about is not the sales figures for the last few years but the fact that the average age of their customers keep increasing. Unless they can attract more younger customers they will have a major problem.
We did, a few years ago. It may have been long enough ago now that it will be new again. Good idea!
Quote from: springer on December 17, 2017, 04:41:01 PM
No real need to spend the money to put it on T.V., cause who watches TV? ;)
Good point...I just realized I rarely watch T.V. There may be dozens of motorcycle commercials these days I've never seen. :)
Quote from: klaviator on December 17, 2017, 04:43:08 PM
I think the statistic that the industry is most concerned about is not the sales figures for the last few years but the fact that the average age of their customers keep increasing. Unless they can attract more younger customers they will have a major problem.
And so you GO to where your CUSTOMERS go.
Everyone bitches about the 20somethings with their nose in their smartphones....so you go there. Lend support to activities that your customer is already active in.
Gotta get out of the box where the middle age is at and jump into the box where your future customer is at.
Quote from: KevinB on December 17, 2017, 04:48:34 PM
Good point...I just realized I rarely watch T.V. There may be dozens of motorcycle commercials these days I've never seen. :)
I have one...it hasn't been on in 10 years.
I want to toss it. But it is a old 36inch tube TV and that sucker is heavy!
Quote from: KevinB on December 17, 2017, 04:20:26 PM
Although I think the mere hinting of testosterone is a put-off and offensive to the generation the manufacturers are trying to market to now.
The whole matter is a big, complex issue with many factors having an effect on motorcycle popularity and sales.
But I believe Kevin nailed one of the issues I think is really at play with his statement.
Maybe I am thinking like an "old guy", but I don't believe so. When I was a kid it seemed BB guns and slingshots and bicycles and GI Joe and playing outside and building forts in the woods, and dreaming of the day you were old enough to have a motorcycle, well, those things just all seemed natural. They seemed like the thing to do without having to be told or convinced they were the thing to do.
Seems that isn't the case with a large segment of today's youth. It's facebook and snapchat and pushing buttons on some electronic device to play a game.
Now I know my nostalgic views on what it was like being a young boy and then a teenager are still alive in some segments of life today. But, apparently, that segment is a diminished segment when compared to life 30-40 years ago.
My thoughts on the matter extend well beyond motorcycling and my perception of diminishing interest on the part of many males in the younger generation. It is a bigger picture issue for me and lest I get way up on my soapbox, I'll avoid going any further and just refer back to Kevin's observation.
1 thing Springer touched on, ATVs. When I was young and wanted to go Vroom, it was either a motorcycle or a Go-Kart. On the motorcycle, I rode on the street, on the trails and across the playground at school. The Go-Kart was pretty much on street or a church parking lot.
Fast forward to today, you have motorcycles, Go-Karts, ATV, SXS and water craft to go Vroom.
If you ride on the street, you'll get a ticket. If you ride offroad, you're trespassing and fine/jail. If you ride on the school playground, OH Lord, I don't even want to think about that!
Due to liability, no one will let you ride on their property. So that's out.
I ride because my Dad did. We need to show our kids and grandkids how fun riding is.
Quote from: DachshundUberAlles on December 17, 2017, 03:57:43 PM
"Optimistic moron"? How about Yamaha built so many of that particular bike because they saw so much interest being paid to that style and wanted to offer what people were actually showing interest?
I was talking about the quantity of units built. Some people bought them and love them. Popular bike for customizing as well. But it seems like every Yamaha dealer has three or four leftovers that they can't give away. So, yeah, they were overly optimistic on the QUANTITY based on some marketers' projections. Honda screwed up with the NC700, the CTX700, and the CTX1300 also. A few people love theirs, but there are hundreds of leftovers all over the US that can be had for a song.
Quote from: DachshundUberAlles on December 17, 2017, 03:57:43 PM
On another thread in here, 'Lawnmower' stated that he's going to build some Café style bikes for the "hipsters" in the area. Is he being an "optimistic moron"?
If he builds a couple thousand more than he can sell, then yeah ... but I wouldn't call him that to his face, 'cause he's a big Scot.
Quote from: DachshundUberAlles on December 17, 2017, 03:57:43 PM
The manufacturers offer a staggering array of styles for the public, and they're not selling nearly as many of ANY of them as they hoped.
I' spent the majority of my adult life in the motorcycle industry. I've seen and heard customers during that time. They talk up big about what they want and what they'll buy. Then the time to put up the cash, they have an all too common habit of not following through.
Back to blaming the consumer. Maybe they just didn't buy their bikes from you. Again, 500k units per year every year for NINE YEARS is stability, not crisis.
Quote from: DachshundUberAlles on December 17, 2017, 03:57:43 PM
Perhaps the anger being expressed here (and on other motorcycle forums) is that the vehicles WE like are fading in comparison to those we don't.
Not fading. Not growing, but not fading either. Perfectly stable selling basically the same number, every year, like clockwork. The innovation you see is just scrambling for market share. The pie is not getting any bigger (or smaller), so they are trying to steal pie from each other. That's how they sell each new model to upper management.
If I've learned nothing else from 24 years of management in various industries, it is that businesses are exceptionally poor at foreseeing the future. Everybody says that the market is on the brink of implosion because riders are all aging out of the market. But the US population continues to grow, and we continue to receive hundreds of thousands of immigrants every year from countries that have a different view of motorcycles as practical transportation. Isn't it just as likely that the collective US view of motorcycles will become more worldly over the next 20 years? Honestly, I think that is the more likely scenario than the entire industry disappearing because we all just lost interest or died off.
Some of the comments give me hope. ;)
As a millennial and an economist, I'd like to stir this pot a little.
o Marginally declining new bike sales is a sign of market saturation. The market approaching saturation is a good thing for engaging new hobbyists due it leading to lower prices on new and used models.
o Kids today still think motorcycles are cool, it's our job as ambassadors of the sport to engage them.
o Motorcycle enthusiasts are some of the worst tribalists - this does nothing to help promote our hobby, especially when speaking to others. I.e. - "damn squid, harley trash, hipster, look at the old fart in the aerostich on the beemer, etc." (I am as guilty of this as anyone, but it's still not good practice to immediately tell someone with an interest in the sport why your favorite niche is superior).
o All sales issues could be resolved with legislation that allows filtering/lanesplitting. Get on it lobbyists!
Quote from: bblass on December 18, 2017, 08:51:31 AM
As a millennial and an economist, I'd like to stir this pot a little.
o Marginally declining new bike sales is a sign of market saturation. The market approaching saturation is a good thing for engaging new hobbyists due it leading to lower prices on new and used models.
o Kids today still think motorcycles are cool, it's our job as ambassadors of the sport to engage them.
o Motorcycle enthusiasts are some of the worst tribalists - this does nothing to help promote our hobby, especially when speaking to others. I.e. - "damn squid, harley trash, hipster, look at the old fart in the aerostich on the beemer, etc." (I am as guilty of this as anyone, but it's still not good practice to immediately tell someone with an interest in the sport why your favorite niche is superior).
o All sales issues could be resolved with legislation that allows filtering/lanesplitting. Get on it lobbyists!
Your lobbyists are working this year to introduce legislation to require a riding test to get your M endorsement. If you want lane splitting legislation, join us! Our agenda is driven from the bottom up, not the top down. It is set by the consensus of participating members.
I wonder how long it took to be accepted as the norm in California? I need to do a little research on that. I'm all for anything it will take to keep motorcycling from fading away or being pushed out of existence by the safety-crats. I want it to exist, and be a cool thing to do, when my millennial daughter's kids come of age, so that I can lead them to the good life!
Quote from: KrisCook on December 18, 2017, 09:01:41 AM
Your lobbyists are working this year to introduce legislation to require a riding test to get your M endorsement. If you want lane splitting legislation, join us! Our agenda is driven from the bottom up, not the top down. It is set by the consensus of participating members.
I wonder how long it took to be accepted as the norm in California? I need to do a little research on that. I'm all for anything it will take to keep motorcycling from fading away or being pushed out of existence by the safety-crats. I want it to exist, and be a cool thing to do, when my millennial daughter's kids come of age, so that I can lead them to the good life!
1980's at lest. I lived in San Diego 1985-1986 and if it wasn't legal, then I broke the law a lot. ;)
Younger people are buying bikes! They are buying cheap used bikes and customizing them to stand out in a crowd or on social media. Almost all of the younger people I know with bikes, have bought used. Pricing on new bikes is ridiculous!!
Quote from: Fencejumper09 on December 18, 2017, 09:12:42 AM
Younger people are buying bikes! They are buying cheap used bikes and customizing them to stand out in a crowd or on social media. Almost all of the younger people I know with bikes, have bought used. Pricing on new bikes is ridiculous!!
I couldn't find the statistic earlier but I l believe used sales have increased over the past 5 years while new sales have started to taper off. Increases in quality and lower prices in the secondary market make it a much more attractive option for new riders.
Quote from: bblass on December 18, 2017, 08:51:31 AM
o Kids today still think motorcycles are cool, it's our job as ambassadors of the sport to engage them.
Some kids may think motorcycles are cool but the percentage of younger people who want or have had the chance to ride is less than it used to be. Even in my generation there were those who had no interest in motorcycles. The fact is that the majority of the people in this country do not ride motorcycles. We are a minority.
Think about all those kids who live in big cities who just aren't exposed to dirt bikes. They may see street bikes but their parents tell them they are dangerous and only idiots ride them. Sure there are plenty of kids in rural areas who have been exposed to dirt bikes or at least ATVs but our population in migrating to urban areas.
Then there is the biggest rival to motorcycles. That would be addiction to electronic devices. Why go out and risk your life riding when you can just play this really outrageous motorcycle video game?
I don't see motorcycling going away anytime soon. The industry will not collapse. However, if it doesn't find a way to attract more younger riders it will continue to struggle and slowly decrease in size.
Ha! Both my daughters have expressed interest in riding. I shut that down QUICK! That shit is dangerous! 8)
This is a just symptom of a much bigger societal problem.
Ok well I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in since over the last year we have covered this on the podcast a few times. The issue that motorcycle companies are having with mellinials is the fact that as a generation they arent into ownership or possessions. When asked about motorcycles they would rather rent then buy.
On top this we have that generation see what debt has done to people, this leaves them less likely to finance a bike. Stateside Harley is down, however look at Triumph, BMW Royal Enfield. These comoainies have seen growth in the states the last few years. Yeah we might replace aging riders with younger ones as fast as some would like.
There are some positive signs however. We are starting to see cooperation between American Manufactures to attract new riders. More opportunities to get on bikes and to learn what the newer generation desires in a ride (function vs form). The corporate stance is moving to a" let me tell you should buy a bike and why my brand is great", instead of a critical view on the competition. Some studies have indicated that this in fighting is drivibg away potential riders.
I will call it a night with this. The motorcycle culture has been changing. Groups like Motorcycle Alabama that promote a open welcoming position on all bikes and riders will do for the industry. Showing a single stong brotherhood approach over the waring tribes of cruiser vs sport or Harley vs the world. Anyway th oight u eould chime in.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Someone, I don't know the guy, shared the same info link on fb. Their algorithms decided I would like to see it, and so I did. I have read all the comments, and there are quite a few. The comments, for the most part, mirror the the diversity of opinions expressed here on mc-al.
I am enjoying reading what everyone has to say on the matter. Personally, I think all have some validity and some place - large or small - in the discussion and when considering a root cause.
I still find myself stuck on this, jrou's comment: "This is a just symptom of a much bigger societal problem.".
One symptom. But a big one. And admittedly one could substitute some other, less judgmental word, for "problem". But in my heart I do see much of it as a problem.
I have seen similar concerns expressed in the fishing and hunting world. Fewer young folks are interested in fishing. Fewer young folks go hunting.
And, depending on how you view the data, and depending on your own observations, one could argue fewer young folks are getting into motorcycling.
One factor surely impacts all three: The availability of a place to hunt/fish/ride (dirtbike). "Civilization" expands and as Travis Tritt sings......
"The back forty was sold to make up for hard times
Then sold by the half acre lot overnight
The houses went up and the trees were cut down
And there went the finest deer hunting around
Lord, everyone's locking their doors
'Cause country ain't country no more.
Now his dad sits in traffic looking 'round at the change
Watching crews turn the county road into four lanes
The old Sunday drive has turned into a chore
Country ain't country no more.
Lord, country ain't country no more."
I KNOW for a fact that has been a big factor in my life in Alabama. And I'm certain the same would apply to many, many urban and suburban areas across the country. If you don't have ready access to such activities as a kid, and if no one is there to encourage and/or take you there as a kid, then the interest - if it naturally existed in the first place - gets squelched and, these days, most likely replaced by technology that only requires you turn on a device or two and sit on the couch.
Another thing is in my mind, and its a bit hard to explain....
The WW-II generation was tested by fire. The Great Depression and The War "hardened" people. All people. It was tough times and folks who got through it all were, naturally, of a different character than would have been the case had the events not taken place.
In the years that followed, their "spirit" and economic prosperity lead to opportunities for men (I'll just speak of men here as my experience as a female is non-existent) to live life and live it large. Rock and Roll music. Fast cars. Motorcycles. Huntin' and fishin'.
The first and second generation that followed had the influence of those folks as parents and grandparents and I'm inclined to believe that influence actually had influence. Opportunities for local outdoor fun were more available and young guys found themselves, naturally (if that is the proper word) gravitating to those activities.
Fast forward to today. Urban and suburban growth has consumed many of the places where riding and hunting and fishing used to take place, so some/many dads are not into the activities like they might have been otherwise.
No "big war", widespread economic/social depression or similar "gut check" time has been seen in two lifetimes. So, maybe(?) the long period of prosperity has allowed for "being life lazy" to take root? Every sort of "turn me on, click me/push my buttons" distraction is in the hands of kids as soon as they can hold it and push the buttons. No need to go anywhere and do anything. The entertainment/pastime is right there on the table.
No place close by to sneak off to and ride a dirtbike or shoot a .22, so it doesn't happen.
The police and society frown upon a kid riding a motorcycle on public roads and probably not going to be a good thing to see a young guy walking through the neighborhood with his BB-gun.
and also..... The Experts tell us of a cultural shift towards less interest in property ownership and a move to inner-city living. Walk to wherever or take a bus. Hunting/fishing (killing animals) is "wrong". Dirtbikes in the woods, etc. destroys nature.
And then there's crap like this: (to follow-up on a comment Kevin made much earlier on here)
Dateline 2017: "Yale University will no longer formally call first-year students "freshmen" as the university is officially changing its terminology to be gender-neutral. ...... So instead of being considered an "upperclassman," a student with multiple years of collegiate experience will be officially considered an "upper-level" student."
.........
"For as long as he can remember, Holloway said, parents and students have occasionally expressed frustrations about the term being gender-specific."
(side note - what in the world are they going to do about the words huMAN and woMAN and sHE?)
I could go on, but I'll stop. I admit I am painting with a broad brush. I admit to being, to some extent, perhaps a bit nostalgic. Even if that be the case, I still believe some of what I described is a factor in what we see today in motorcycling and outdoor activities.
Obviously the things I mention do not apply to everyone, everywhere, in every situation. But I believe it applies to many. I believe they are significant factors, among several others, when considering and discussing the perceived decline in interest in motorcycles (and hunting and fishing).
Brian, I agree with everything you just posted. Sometimes I look at what is going on in this country and wonder how long before the country collapses due to sheer stupidity.....
But then I think about the millenials that I know. For the most part they don't fit the mold that the millenials should. They aren't the super risk adverse snowflakes. Some of them do things like cliff diving, mixed martial arts, hunting, fishing and yes even riding those deadly motorcycles.
Then we don't yet know what the next generation will be like. Maybe the pendulum will swing back the other way?
Also consider this. How many people in our generation are part of this problem? Every generation has had a wide mix of people. Many people of the older generation have never hunted, fished or ridden a motorcycle. Who is that started this super risk adverse culture?
Too many questions and not enough answers. I'm going to try too stop thinking about this and look forward to my next ride.
Excellent points Win. And I too know Millennials that don't fit the big-picture, macro stereotype of what a Millennial is.
The Millennial demographic is a VERY large demographic and I think the stereotype fits a sizable percentage. (think about the huge numbers in the big population centers of the US)
There will ALWAYS be those at either end of the bell curve. Those who are extreme snowflakes and have no interest in a risky, thrilling lifestyle and those who live for the thrill of motorcycling, daybreak in a boat catching bass or sundown in a deer stand in the middle of the woods, or any of several other more "adventurous" pursuits. I see those as near quintessential examples of life in America. But that's just my views on things.
Maybe the bell curve will shift and other pursuits (rock climbing, hang gliding, martial arts, etc.) will fill the meat of the curve and motorcycling will be a bit on the edge of the curve.
But back to the subject that was the initial matter: How can/will the motorcycle industry respond to these, and whatever other shifts, might be a part of a lower participation rate/lower sales future?
Like you said Win: "Too many questions and not enough answers" ?
Might be.
I wish the industry well. Motorcycle riding is too much fun to be missed out on by at least some sizable percent of the population!
This is how you attract millennials into motorcycling:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCmU-IOGksY
That /\ was excellent. And a wonderful representation of younger guys out having fun on motorcycles.
After watching it, If I didn't already have a DS , I'd probably be shopping today.
Quote from: Brian A on December 20, 2017, 07:59:58 AM
After watching it, If I didn't already have a DS , I'd probably be shopping today.
I agree.... But then I always feel that way hearing and seeing all the adventures you fine folks take off roading. Always reminds me of my teen years on trails. Thanks everyone for sharing those on the forum.
Chuck
This brings up the point mentioned about meeting the new generation where they are. In this case YouTube. I don't know why I haven't shred this before. I follow this guy on YouTube.
Everybody likes to bash millennials, but they have grown up only knowing terrorism, economic depression, and vicious political division. It is no wonder that they think differently from older generations.
Do any of you think that any generation has not criticized the generations behind them?
Quote from: Nice Goat on December 20, 2017, 12:50:56 PM
Everybody likes to bash millennials, but they have grown up only knowing terrorism, economic depression, and vicious political division.
Not to get too political, but to add to that the divorce industry has effectively destroyed wealth by redistributing it from the family to the state.
I think that before people start bashing on millenials, it's a good idea to think about the world that their parents created for them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBSvlTYfUrs
Quote from: Nice Goat on December 20, 2017, 12:50:56 PM
Everybody likes to bash millennials, but they have grown up only knowing terrorism, economic depression, and vicious political division. It is no wonder that they think differently from older generations.
Do any of you think that any generation has not criticized the generations behind them?
The hazing of life. ;) We grew up in the world our parents created. Our children grew up in the world we created...and so on and so on.
It has been that way for as long as we have been.
Motorsport Aftermarket Group (MAG) has announced it has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, as a means of eliminating $300 million in debt
MAG owns and operates several prominent powersports companies, including Tucker Rocky, Biker's Choice, DragonFire Racing, Kuryakyn, Progressive Suspension, QuadBoss, Vance & Hines and J&P Cycles