Motorcycle Alabama

Open House => Motorcycling News => Topic started by: norton73 on September 05, 2018, 06:33:21 PM

Title: Harley E Bikes
Post by: norton73 on September 05, 2018, 06:33:21 PM
https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/harley-davidson-silicon-valley/


HD has announced they are opening a R&D facility in Silicon Valley.

Sounds like they are gonna take the world market seriously. Many cities in Asia and China have banned IC , my understanding is E scooters rule the streets. I still am a fan of the Live Wire.
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: LawnmowerRG on September 06, 2018, 07:14:48 AM
That is interesting.
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: bblass on September 06, 2018, 08:21:24 AM
I saw they recently split with Alta who claims they had the best battery tech out of any company out there (including Tesla). If they can figure out how to manufacture to a range and price point the livewire and some of the other e-bikes will probably be winners. I know I'm interested.

Also saw in another article that Ducati is up for sale from VW and HD is being viewed as a potential buyer. The pairing doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but I guess they are both "luxury" marques and Ducati's increasing sales would benefit exponentially from HD's dealer network. Either way, exciting to see HD in the news and not have it be related to lower MC sales.
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: springer on September 06, 2018, 10:10:35 AM
I saw they recently split with Alta who claims they had the best battery tech out of any company out there (including Tesla). If they can figure out how to manufacture to a range and price point the livewire and some of the other e-bikes will probably be winners. I know I'm interested.

Also saw in another article that Ducati is up for sale from VW and HD is being viewed as a potential buyer. The pairing doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but I guess they are both "luxury" marques and Ducati's increasing sales would benefit exponentially from HD's dealer network. Either way, exciting to see HD in the news and not have it be related to lower MC sales.

 Yep. The more of us there are, the better off we are. ;)

Small groups can be easy pickings for stiffer regulations.
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: kylepeterson on September 06, 2018, 03:42:50 PM
https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/harley-davidson-silicon-valley/


HD has announced they are opening a R&D facility in Silicon Valley.

Sounds like they are gonna take the world market seriously. Many cities in Asia and China have banned IC , my understanding is E scooters rule the streets. I still am a fan of the Live Wire.

big bold letters coming soon...
Designed by Harley Davidson in California

















manufactured in Malaysia
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: kylepeterson on September 06, 2018, 03:47:10 PM
it's been working pretty well for Apple, why not?

warrantee work would consist of an e bike genius bar...
$900 "logic board" installs
$200 battery checks
complimentary washes while you get a hair cut
firmware flashes would be considered rooting/evil and void the warranty

I'm looking forward to anyone improving battery tech to 300 mile ranges and 30 minutes charge cycles
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: sctparker on September 06, 2018, 06:14:04 PM
And just think how much a tag is going to be when they figure out you aren't paying the road tax on fuel (22.91 cents per gallon in Alabama) and decide to add that tax to your tag renewel based on a mileage number they make up, then have you jump thru hoops or start a mandatory inspection to verify mileage  to get a refund or pay more. It's coming for cars too some states are charging a higher tag renewal for electric vehicles already. And traveing between states will require a road use tax/permit since you are using their road and not buying fuel and paying their road tax .

 Going to be a tire eater also unless they limit the torque or come up with a motorcycle tire with tread like a car tire and not blocks like we have now that cup with aggresive accleration
With the torque of a electric motor it's going to be cupping/scalloping the rear tire constantly
My bike cups the rear tire faster if I start off aggressively  with very little torque.
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: kylepeterson on September 06, 2018, 11:02:15 PM
And just think how much a tag is going to be when they figure out you aren't paying the road tax on fuel (22.91 cents per gallon in Alabama) and decide to add that tax to your tag renewel based on a mileage number they make up, then have you jump thru hoops or start a mandatory inspection to verify mileage  to get a refund or pay more. It's coming for cars too some states are charging a higher tag renewal for electric vehicles already. And traveing between states will require a road use tax/permit since you are using their road and not buying fuel and paying their road tax .

 Going to be a tire eater also unless they limit the torque or come up with a motorcycle tire with tread like a car tire and not blocks like we have now that cup with aggresive accleration
With the torque of a electric motor it's going to be cupping/scalloping the rear tire constantly
My bike cups the rear tire faster if I start off aggressively  with very little torque.

Taxes... Avoidable, for a little while
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: norton73 on November 07, 2018, 03:24:05 PM
Coming to a dealership near you soon?

Can HD patent the sound of the LiveWire just like they patented Potato Potato?



https://jalopnik.com/the-harley-davidson-livewire-is-the-companys-electric-f-1830266841

Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: klaviator on November 07, 2018, 04:41:43 PM
Based on the picture I have to say they did a good job with the styling.  We'll just have to wait and see what the performance and cost are like.
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: JBMFT on November 07, 2018, 06:47:07 PM
Range. To me it is all about range.
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: kylepeterson on November 09, 2018, 05:44:48 PM
i beer if they ripped all that Fake Plastic (tm) off it they could get another 10-15 miles of range.

congrats Harley, you're the only electric moto maker there is now. that's so sad.
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: LawnmowerRG on November 10, 2018, 03:10:36 PM
How much is the tour pack?
If there is no exhaust to change, do you add a subwoofer?
How loud is the stereo anyway?
Will it shake paint like all the other Harley’s?
And when will we see the CVO Flaming Eagle Skull Edition?
 :D ;D
These are the important questions.
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: norton73 on January 07, 2019, 04:55:23 PM
Well, the Bar & Shield has managed to price the Livewire out of the reach of anyone wanting a commuter bike.

https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/2020-harley-davidson-livewire-price-details/

$29,799

Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: klaviator on January 07, 2019, 09:33:57 PM
Well, the Bar & Shield has managed to price the Livewire out of the reach of anyone wanting a commuter bike.

https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/2020-harley-davidson-livewire-price-details/

$29,799

$29,799 ??? ???  Well then this won't be what they need to attract younger customers.  They need to get this down to around 10K if they want to sell more than just a few of them.
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: IceCold4x4 on January 07, 2019, 10:08:36 PM
I could have even seen 20k at realistic even but 30k? Yea nope....

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: klaviator on January 08, 2019, 06:09:56 AM
I guess the competition is as much as around 20K but that would still be out of reach for most buyers. 
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: norton73 on January 08, 2019, 07:01:29 AM
Motus bikes were priced just above $30K and a lot better equipped. Where are they now?
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: Hammerdown77 on January 08, 2019, 07:41:21 AM
I expected this bike would be over $20k with the newness and tech, and being a Harley flagship model, but still under $25k. I thought they'd be dead in the water if the bike was more than most of their full dress touring rigs.

Then they went and did that.

So I'm not sure what the thought process is here, and who the market is. Likely now they're aiming at the premier class buyer who wants the latest greatest thing, but for whom motorcycles are still "toys". Problem is, that market is fickle, and heavily dependent on the state of the economy.

But then, most people who buy new Harleys (and BMWs for that matter) will finance the purchase price, usually with long loans, so the idea of what's "too expensive" is not as clear as it would be if folks were paying cash for these things.

Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: Hammerdown77 on January 08, 2019, 07:58:48 AM
Here's another take on a potential strategy for this bike.

https://electrek-co.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/electrek.co/2019/01/07/harley-davidson-livewire-e-motorcycle/amp/?usqp=mq331AQECAFYAQ%3D%3D&amp_js_v=0.1#aoh=15469527251029&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Felectrek.co%2F2019%2F01%2F07%2Fharley-davidson-livewire-e-motorcycle%2F

This bike may be a super low volume production run, driving exclusivity, much like the CVO bikes. For the type of buyer who buys things like that, as I said, this will be a win. They'll likely sell every one of them they make, but not to people wanting a $10k commuter.

Then they'll follow up with the less expensive city commuter bikes. Tesla has done similar with their cars. Come out swinging with the high dollar jobs first to drive exclusivity, then follow up with the less expensive "everyman" commuter cars.
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: bblass on January 08, 2019, 08:19:23 AM
As an electric car and Harley owner, I thought I was the prime marketing target for the Livewire. Not at 30K!

Really thought HD would try to deliver this bike for a little more than half of that. All that build up for 95% of interested motorcyclists to immediately let out a loud "NOPE!" once they see the price tag...
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: klaviator on January 08, 2019, 08:24:33 AM
One interesting thing I read in the link was that all dealers selling the Livewire must install a quick charging station.  If every Harley dealer does this then potentially you could ride one of these cross country riding from dealer to dealer.  While you are stopped you would have time to browse and pick up more Harley stuff!  Pretty ingenious on Harley's part. 
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: springer on January 08, 2019, 09:20:10 AM
One interesting thing I read in the link was that all dealers selling the Livewire must install a quick charging station.  If every Harley dealer does this then potentially you could ride one of these cross country riding from dealer to dealer.  While you are stopped you would have time to browse and pick up more Harley stuff!  Pretty ingenious on Harley's part.

 You may dislike the motorcycles but you have to admire the marketing smarts the company has.  ;)

Right now there are more charging station but not really "enough" to make it comfortable to use it as an everyday type of thing...unless most of your commuting falls into the 20-30  miles to and back range...if you have a charger at home...of course a charger installed at your home is another cost of being one of the first in a new field.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1&q=electric+vehicle+charging+stations+near+me&npsic=0&rflfq=1&rlha=0&rllag=33432643,-86907724,12175&tbm=lcl&ved=2ahUKEwiHjbeHut7fAhUOn-AKHTvcB_AQtgN6BAgAEAQ&tbs=lrf:!2m1!1e3!2m1!1e16!3sCgIIASAB,lf:1,lf_ui:3&rldoc=1#rlfi=hd:;si:;mv:!1m2!1d33.6403767!2d-86.64285319999999!2m2!1d33.3472149!2d-87.0298734;tbs:lrf:!2m1!1e3!2m1!1e16!3sCgIIASAB,lf:1,lf_ui:3

 Since Harley is now known for riders who will ride pretty far on trips, it makes even more sense to have a charging station there. Makes planning that trip easier.

 I think it will not be long before most vehicles on the road are some kind of an electrical powered one. The tech involved is moving a head pretty swift...if you take a long view of things. 5 years ago, if you did that same search on Google that I did, you could find even 1/2 the ones listed.
 Harley is not a dumb company. They see a future in this and are making moves to keep getting folks in the door.  ;)

Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: klaviator on January 08, 2019, 09:36:49 AM
I don't dislike the Harleys or the Livewire.  I think it would be fun to ride but between the price and range I am not a potential customer.  Only time will tell if this will work out for them.  Maybe they want to establish themselves as the E bike leader before offering less expensive models.  That might be a smart strategy but if the Livewire doesn't sell then what do they do?

It will be interesting to watch how this turns out.
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: Hammerdown77 on January 08, 2019, 09:51:28 AM
I think one thing we, as more "hard core" motorcyclists, people who view a motorcycle as a legitimate long range travel conveyance, often forget is that most people who ride motorcycles in this country don't ride them very far. "We" joke about H-D guys just riding to the bar and back, but look at the new cafe/hipster bike scene. They do the same thing. Or just ride it downtown to some old building so they can post filtered photos on Instagram.

The range part is not as big of a deal as we think (we meaning the small niche group of us that think 200 mile tank range is the entry point to "decent range")

What will really be the game change for E-bikes will be charging time. 5-10 minute charge time to get fully charged, now you're talking. At that point then the availability of charging stations becomes the limiting factor for actually using these bikes for trips.

Like Springer said, Harley ain't stupid, and they're very good at marketing and knowing their market, despite the occasional misstep. You can bet they did a lot of research to determine what the market was going to be not just for this bike, but for the next models they have coming down the pike. Time will tell whether or not their research and analysis bears fruit.
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: Nice Goat on January 08, 2019, 07:28:27 PM
I don’t think that HD is very smart at all.  I think that they are stuck in their ways.  They wouldn’t have the first idea how to build a lightweight adventure bike or dual sport.  They have tried a few innovative moves, but their adventure bike is heavy and ugly, and their electric bike took five years to bring to market and is ridiculously overpriced, even though Harley’s CEO said in 2014 that the bike is aimed "to reach a more diverse group of riders including 18 to 35-year-olds, women, African-Americans and Hispanic riders".  I don’t know anybody in that demographic that can afford to drop $30k on an unproven product.  They will continue to close plants, layoff workers, and watch their independent dealerships get bought up and consolidated by mega-dealers — until they figure out how to make something more exciting and affordable here in the USA.  And please don’t bring up the Street 500, which at 492 pounds has a lower power-weight ratio than a Royal Enfield.

Now if they would make a 750cc scrambler that was fuel injected and weighed under 400 pounds, I’d head on over to the dealer and sign up.


Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: Hammerdown77 on January 09, 2019, 11:46:19 AM
I believe that quote was "part of an effort".

I never got the impression from all the press releases and the Project Livewire Tour that the target for the Livewire was poor millenials. Very clearly this initial product is not for poor people. And, or course, not all millenials are poor. Depends on which part of the country you're looking at.

So now everyone is comparing this bike to Zero's offerings. I got curious and wondered how many bikes Zero makes/sells. And that number is really hard to find, apparently, since they haven't released numbers. However, I did find a Business Insider article that states they produce about 2000 bikes a year
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-of-electric-motorcycles-zero-motorcycles-shares-company-plans-2018-3

It would be interesting to see a breakout of those sales numbers by country region. I'm guessing most are California, specifically big cities, and urban areas everywhere else. And in those cases, you definitely have more wealth among that new demographic than anywhere else in the country. And those are areas where electric scooters and bikes are becoming more popular for urban commuting. Which I'm sure is why H-D keeps showing us all these prototype pictures of electirc bikes and scooter looking things.

Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: kylepeterson on January 10, 2019, 06:00:06 PM
So a kid has enough credit to get a livewire, his first new vehicle...
But the Honda accord has four seats, 350 mile range, hvac, sunroof, VTEC YO, and that new car smell... And the Honda is six grand cheaper ?

The forty something obviously can afford to just buy it, but the house needs paint, carpet, and a new deck...

The sixty something would buy it, but why bother with a cheap plastic looking doohickey that has no soul ?

Who is this 85 mile (honesty vs advertising) range bike for ?

I dunno, the price is a real disappointment
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: Slede on January 12, 2019, 10:53:51 PM
Well, the Bar & Shield has managed to price the Livewire out of the reach of anyone wanting a commuter bike.

https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/2020-harley-davidson-livewire-price-details/

$29,799

historic is right, the official death note of the electric bike. FFS
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: kylepeterson on January 14, 2019, 07:05:45 AM
This is the best picture I've found of it.

Brembo brakes, cool!

That mini front fender means lots of road splash, and there is no protection for the fork stanchions. Most modern street bikes have a wrap around fork protector that isn't hideous.

The rear end... good lord they really can't let go of the bobber thinking... no grab handles, no saddle bags, no comfort for the passenger ? How are you supposed to sell this to the wife with no place for her to sit ? Emasculated males need help with selling their wives for things, don't cha know ?

But that plastic... what's the deal with the silver thing at the bottom? Normally electric motors are extremely compact, round, and about the size of kid sized soccer ball... batteries are normally square or rectangular to pack the most amp hours into the smallest package... why the fake silver plastic? Are they trying to appeal to the ICE crowd ?

I really expected to see the electric motor partially or fully revealed, on the Harley model. Maybe some big "90 ft/lb" graphics on it ? Or "15,000 watts" in big bold letters ?

They've been showcasing the engines for a hundred years, why hide a motor behind  faux plastic panels ?

Man I really hope they make a second model, like a stripped down flat tracker or "commuter" with better ergonomics chance of selling.

I'm going to watch the info about the infotainment system, that might be something to snag from eBay and graft into a sumo ;-)


Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: Slede on January 15, 2019, 09:05:09 PM
they built an electric bike and put sound in it  ??? the the fucn fuc batman
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: sctparker on January 26, 2019, 07:14:33 PM
I will consider buyng an EM when, (1) I can charge the EM as fast as filling up my gas tank, (2) I can drive as many miles on one charge as I can on one tank of gas, (3) The cost to replace the battery set is equal to or less than maintaining a gas engine, and (4) The purchase price of the EM is equal to or less than the purchase price of a comparable gas motocycle.
Title: Re: Harley E Bikes
Post by: sctparker on March 06, 2019, 10:35:37 PM
more Research and development for the livewire https://www.autoblog.com/2019/03/06/harley-davidson-e-bikes--stacyc/