Here is an article by Motorcycle.com about the subject and how to do it properly.
http://www.motorcycle.com/features/riding-with-a-gun.html (http://www.motorcycle.com/features/riding-with-a-gun.html)
The teaser video.
I'm suddenly feeling like Alabama is a bit more free than certain other places.....
Around here it's to easy not to get a carry permit. Then you don't have to worry about it.
I'll admit when I clicked on this topic I figured it was going to be good techniques for concealing while riding and keeping dirt out of your gun, etc.
Griff my friend we could go there.
I was thinking of this in the terms of our people that travel on a bike and how to keep out of jail in those unfriendly areas.
Concealed carry does sound a lot easier, but is it reciprocal for all states? I don't carry so I've never checked into it.
What I need to learn is proper techniques for firing a handgun from a moving motorcycle ala SOA. After all, I ride with both a Masonic and a Baptist church group and you never know when a rival from the Knights of Columbus or some angry Methodist biker is going to start a fight. How on earth can I fire with my acceleration hand like all the tough bikers on TV? ;D
Actually, I wasn't aware that a gun had to be carried in a separate locked compartment without driver access. I've certainly carried my shotgun in the car and wouldn't have hesitated to place a handgun in my saddlebag for transport thinking I was legally clear as long as it wasn't in my vest.
Quote from: Guidedawg on June 21, 2016, 08:23:35 AM
Concealed carry does sound a lot easier, but is it reciprocal for all states? I don't carry so I've never checked into it.
What I need to learn is proper techniques for firing a handgun from a moving motorcycle ala SOA. After all, I ride with both a Masonic and a Baptist church group and you never know when a rival from the Knights of Columbus or some angry Methodist biker is going to start a fight. How on earth can I fire with my acceleration hand like all the tough bikers on TV? ;D
Actually, I wasn't aware that a gun had to be carried in a separate locked compartment without driver access. I've certainly carried my shotgun in the car and wouldn't have hesitated to place a handgun in my saddlebag for transport thinking I was legally clear as long as it wasn't in my vest.
Alabama concealed carry permits are reciprocal in all immediately surrounding states and over half the states in the country. The closest state that doesn't honor it is South Carolina. There are only a few states that are real assholes about guns. New York, CA and Ma come to mind but there's a few more, none around here.
I agree with Griff, it's so easy to get a concealed permit in AL there's no reason not to. With the permit you don't have to worry much about transporting a hand gun. Just keep in mind there are some places you still can't take that gun even in a locked container such as on military bases.
One more reason to ride a scooter ;D
(http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu171/wknudsen/2016%20PICS/P3020006_zpsaeltmscg.jpg)
Quote from: Guidedawg on June 21, 2016, 08:23:35 AM
Actually, I wasn't aware that a gun had to be carried in a separate locked compartment without driver access. I've certainly carried my shotgun in the car and wouldn't have hesitated to place a handgun in my saddlebag for transport thinking I was legally clear as long as it wasn't in my vest.
The difference is lawfuly concealed carry -vs- transporting a firearm. They are distinctly different and can have significant legal ramifications if both are not understood and the corresponding laws observed.
Two very good resources whether you are in an auto or on a motorcycle.
Also, I keep copies of Alabama reciprocity map and Duty to inform map in my wallet next to my CCP.
I think I will also print out the federal law shown in the video regarding lawful transport (as opposed to lawful concealed carry)
http://www.ago.state.al.us/Page-Gun-Reprocity-Law
http://concealednation.org/2015/07/do-you-have-a-duty-to-inform-when-carrying-concealed-we-look-at-all-50-states-for-the-answers/
And a real good tool to build a map and print it out for carrying in your wallet/purse.
http://concealednation.org/2015/07/do-you-have-a-duty-to-inform-when-carrying-concealed-we-look-at-all-50-states-for-the-answers/
print this in color, trim and laminate, and put in wallet....
Quote from: Brian A on June 21, 2016, 09:20:14 AM
Quote from: Guidedawg on June 21, 2016, 08:23:35 AM
Actually, I wasn't aware that a gun had to be carried in a separate locked compartment without driver access. I've certainly carried my shotgun in the car and wouldn't have hesitated to place a handgun in my saddlebag for transport thinking I was legally clear as long as it wasn't in my vest.
The difference is lawfuly concealed carry -vs- transporting a firearm. They are distinctly different and can have significant legal ramifications if both are not understood and the corresponding laws observed.
Two very good resources whether you are in an auto or on a motorcycle.
Also, I keep copies of Alabama reciprocity map and Duty to inform map in my wallet next to my CCP.
I think I will also print out the federal law shown in the video regarding lawful transport (as opposed to lawful concealed carry)
http://www.ago.state.al.us/Page-Gun-Reprocity-Law
http://concealednation.org/2015/07/do-you-have-a-duty-to-inform-when-carrying-concealed-we-look-at-all-50-states-for-the-answers/
And a real good tool to build a map and print it out for carrying in your wallet/purse.
http://concealednation.org/2015/07/do-you-have-a-duty-to-inform-when-carrying-concealed-we-look-at-all-50-states-for-the-answers/
The reprocity list is out of date. Add Ohio to the list. Also, several states don't require a permit so they don't need reprocity, such as Vermont.
I carried an ar and a shotgun slung across my back with a pistol on my hip to go to a 3 gun match once. Hoover PD pulled me over and asked where i was headed once i told them they let me go without further complications. Still working on a quick access mount for my pistol grip 12 guage (for no other reason than because....)
open carry is legal without permit, if you get inside a vehicle it is considered concealed so now you need a permit. btw, sitting on a motorcycle is considered inside a vehicle so it is technically concealed at that point and you need a permit. I found this out at a "random" driver license check. looked it up and it was right. I have a permit so it wound up not being a big deal other than a patrolman going all martin riggs on me for a few minutes lol.
Personally I open or conceal carry most of the time.
Brian that is a good idea. I have not thought of carrying those with me.
I know LEOs have an enormous amount of rules and regs to remember. Plus things changing on them.
Quote from: LawnmowerRG on June 21, 2016, 09:31:39 PM
Personally I open or conceal carry most of the time.
Same here. In fact I often open carry while riding.
I've gotta disagree with something from the article, though: if I'm transporting an unloaded gun in a backpack, saddlebag or whatever, I have absolutely no intention of declaring it if I happen to be stopped. First of all, it's not his concern. I mean that literally; the federal peaceable journey law supersedes local and state laws if I am doing it properly. Second, it's none of his business (which sounds similar but is not quite the same): if I happen to be doing it wrong (due to a mistake or misreading of the law) or his jurisdiction or the individual cop doesn't agree with that law or whatever, I have the right as guaranteed by the 4th and 5th Amendments to go my way without volunteering to be detained and searched.
Third, also related: some jurisdictions do indeed consider that law null and void as a practical matter, and some of those jurisdictions consider it a felony offense.
I carried this way when I had to cross about 30 miles of Maryland last year. I stopped in WV and took a leak, ate a bite, filled the tank and secured my pistol before entering MD; then drove straight across without stopping. Did the same in PA before entering MD on the return trip.
The article invokes the "must inform" law that some states have (NC being the closest to us; also SC but they don't honor our CCW anyway); but those laws apply to CCW,
not unloaded transport per the federal law.
Military bases are a different matter, as Klaviator pointed out. Tribal reservations may be too, if you leave the highway. I may or may not have traveled some backroads in the Navajo nation while carrying, but in retrospect that might be taking a chance.
I had a Texas CHL which requires you to show to an officer if pulled over, and to inform whether carrying. After moving to AL and getting my pistol carry permit, was pulled over. Surrendered my license and pistol carry permit, and told him I currently did not have a weapon with me. Officer asked me why I gave it to him - not required. I told him I owed it to him to let him know whether I was carrying or not. He told me he appreciated that, and let me go with a warning.
I strap ad over and under on my motorcycle several times a week to go shoot skeet. It's in a case, and the case inside of a black duffel.
Quote from: markbxr400 on October 11, 2017, 09:52:52 PM
I had a Texas CHL which requires you to show to an officer if pulled over, and to inform whether carrying. After moving to AL and getting my pistol carry permit, was pulled over. Surrendered my license and pistol carry permit, and told him I currently did not have a weapon with me. Officer asked me why I gave it to him - not required. I told him I owed it to him to let him know whether I was carrying or not. He told me he appreciated that, and let me go with a warning.
Had similar with Huntsville PD. Got pulled over by two cops running plates on University (I'd bought a new-to-me car a few days prior, and the plate was still showing in their database as registered with the previous vehicle). One of the officers approached my vehicle, hand resting on his sidearm, and asked me for license and registration. I handed him my license and my carry permit. He handed the permit back and said "I don't need this". My registration was in the glove box, with a loaded Beretta 92, so I told him, "I need to get the registration out of the glove box, and there is a loaded firearm in the glove box. He replied, "That's fine, just don't suddenly reach for it, or I might shoot you." I told him, "Fair enough!"
In those types of situations I usually let the circumstances dictate whether or not I feel I need to inform the officer about a firearm on or near my person. And most of that has to do with whether or not I think NOT informing them might result in me getting shot.
For example, during this same traffic stop, I did not see the need to inform him of the rest of the gun show that was in the trunk (I was literally on my way home from the range).
I was stopped in Blount Co. a few years back on a backroad, at an SS checkpoint where they were clearly rousting Mexicans. I was asked if I had drugs or weapons in the vehicle, I answered "yes, and I have a permit". Two of the 3 deputies immediately put hands on handles and told me to step out. They retrieved my weapon, ejected every round looking for a dirty one. I was waiting for the cavity search/interrogation next, but for some reason they let me go - no apology, and no explanation.
I had a similar experience a couple years later, announced I had a CCW and a weapon, the same intense panic happened, as if I threatened to shoot him with it?
I no longer announce permit or weapon. Any questions about what is in my vehicle gets " I don't answer questions like that."
I would rather not be shot for simply exercising my legal right as an American.
I guess it only takes 3 poorly trained(or dumb) cops to change things?
One night coming in from the racetrack, State had a check point on Hwy 65. I came around the corner and had to get on the brakes pretty hard. Trooper asked if I was going a little fast. I said "No Sir, 55mph". He then asked for license, I handed him my DL out of my billfold. He noticed my permit and ask what kind of weapon did I have? I usually don't have one and didn't that night. I told him I didn't have one. He said, "Why do you have a permit?" I said, "Just thought it would be a good idea". He repeated his question. Answer still "No". He said, "Just in case?"and chuckles, again I answer "Yes".
Another trooper is checking my truck and informs the 1st my tag lights and I have a firefighter tag. The trooper at my door relays the info to me and says he doesn't check his tag lights either. Then sends me on my way.
From the experiences related here, and other discussions elsewhere, an individual really can't have a reasonable idea regarding exactly what to expect in the event of a stop by LEO. Whether one be in a vehicle or on a motorcycle.
Experiences are all over the map, which is, sadly, a bit of a detriment to the legal CC person.
I have several friends in the law enforcement community. They are good guys and I count them as good friends. That said, I have read and been told a number of times that LEO are trained (expected?) to "fish" for information that, when freely provided via answering probing/open ended questions, provides a legitimate opening for the officer to dig further (reasonable suspicion).
So guys like me, with friends in the community (and a deceased grandfather who served for many years - with pride -as a State Trooper) are forced to accept that we don't know the temperament, disposition, goal, etc. of a LEO who might pull me/us over.
I have read a fair amount on Alabama Duty to Inform. It is my understanding there is no legal obligation to inform without being asked, and arguably no duty to inform even if asked by LEO. You are simply required to have a CC permit if you are carrying concealed.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/alabama.pdf
And of course laws different greatly in other states. So I guess the best approach is try to be educated on laws for any/all states one might choose to legally carry concealed and then practice a polite, respectful, business-like approach if/when pulled over. Don't answer probing questions. Just deal with the bare bones necessities and move along.
A friend in law enforcement, not one that anybody here would know, once told me (paraphrasing) "You are pretty much at the mercy of the guy who pulls you over. Some are great guys who don't wish to cause you trouble. They are just doing their job. And then there are some who are complete jerks and can potentially make for a bad experience. It's a roll of the dice."
Id judge that to be both accurate and less than comforting.
I am a member of a LEO support group on FB. The general consensus there is keep your hands on the wheel(or handlebars), inform the officer you have a loaded gun and a permit. Ask him how he wishes to proceed. If the gun is not loaded, your choice to inform.
Note: I have never had personal experience with this situation.
I think TN has about 3x more Troopers than AL. They do what they're supposed to do in the most unlikely of places. They are always present where you least expect them. Last year (I think?), I was on my way to Tellico Plains to chill a couple days before meeting Winn in Suches, on a (very out-of-the-way) TN county road when I got "lit-up" by a Trooper while going significantly over the limit in a 45 m.p.h zone with seductively tempting curves. Not one to push my limits too much....there was NOT another vehicle to be found for miles.....I was truly in the middle of nowhere on a nicely paved road on the mighty XT250 and enjoying every second of it. 60 m.p.h. is not that significantly different than the conservative 45 m.p.h limit on many TN county roads. I had plenty of time to see him, slow down and pull in right beside him he never had to move....effectively surrendering to whatever he had in mind for a "fugitive from the law".
I stopped, pulled my helmet and gadgets off, and waited for his approach.
He was a cool-headed, older guy....maybe even my age...who approached and asked if I knew what I was doing wrong. I said "Yes". He said, "I'm too far out to run your plates over computer....are you wanted for any crimes?" "I'm pushing the limits of my kitchen-pass and speeding but that is about it", I responded...."no crimes". He said, "Dispatch has not responed". "Do you need to tell me anything?". I said, "There is a small .380 in my tank bag" He went back to his car for a spell and finally came back only to say "slow it down a notch"....never asked for a permit and never asked for a search. "You can go with a warning" is the last thing I remember....I think I have a yellow paper as a reminder. It was a very pleasant exchange for which I am most grateful. I'd like to see the country more fortified with these most reasonable people.
Hats off to TN training tempered with basic human compassion. WTG TN Troopers!
I know they see crazy sh1t, from time-to-time...but I'm encouraged to know that they can still make rational assessments on-the-fly.
I was back on my way in 15 minutes. The only thing that stung me a little is that my helmet cam mount is technically illegal in TN....The mount and camera must not extend 1 1/4" from the helmet.
I took it off, immediately, and we were both pleased to depart ways.
I just found it interesting that he was so little concerned by the loaded firearm.
I think the majority of seasoned LEO are a pretty good quick judge of character and threat assessment.
I'd wager he knew very quickly you didn't pose any threat. You told him you had the gun and told him where it was. At that point, HE had the advantage if you intended ill will. Not much chance you could quickly open your tank bag and grab a handgun before he could draw his from his holster. (and HAD you intended ill will, you'd have not told him what you had and where it was. He knew that.)
He sounds like one of the cool, level headed guys in law enforcement. I think they deserve a huge pat on the back and a call or note to their superiors to pass along a word of Thanks for being courteous and professional and deserving of the respect all LEO would like to receive from the public.
I generally figure of you tell me about the firearm (and you look fairly unassuming) , you don't intend me harm...I still maintain a level of unconscious caution that I do on any stop however.
I stop people that hand me a permit and say "I have a gun in the console". My usual responses are either, "You're driving through Birmingham...I'd be concerned of you DIDN'T have one..." or "Just don't show me yours, and I won't show you mine. "
Generally, the level of response you see is commensurate with the level of training and experience. I'm comfortable with my gunfighting skills and ability to react to a threat...the guys that freak out when you mention you're armed know that they lack the training and experience to handle the situation should it go sideways.
Quote from: kdtrull on October 12, 2017, 11:05:36 AM
.................. I said, "There is a small .380 in my tank bag"
A small .380? I see a scene from Crocodile Dundee......."That's not a GUN." as he laughs and pulls out a real gun :lol-049: :lol-049:
Hey, I carry the same thing.
Another question. You are out riding someplace like the BRP or a national park and stop at a visitors center. You want to go in but guns are illegal in all federal buildings including visitors centers. What do you do with the gun? I have lockable storage on all my bikes but what if you don't?
On the same note, many places have no guns allowed signs. The laws really vary as to what this means. In Alabama you can often just ignore those signs but not always. I did some research before riding to the Vintage fest last weekend. It has a no guns policy. So I did some research. Alabama law does not allow guns at sporting events. I assume racing is a sporting event. But what if you are just going to the museum?
BTW I left my gun at home for vintage fest.
Quote from: klaviator on October 12, 2017, 12:41:06 PM
Another question. You are out riding someplace like the BRP or a national park and stop at a visitors center. You want to go in but guns are illegal in all federal buildings including visitors centers. What do you do with the gun? I have lockable storage on all my bikes but what if you don't?
On the same note, many places have no guns allowed signs. The laws really vary as to what this means. In Alabama you can often just ignore those signs but not always. I did some research before riding to the Vintage fest last weekend. It has a no guns policy. So I did some research. Alabama law does not allow guns at sporting events. I assume racing is a sporting event. But what if you are just going to the museum?
BTW I left my gun at home for vintage fest.
Technically you can carry until. Asked to. Leave at which point if you don't you can be arrested for trespassing. The sporting event clause is odd to me, pretty sure that just applies to the inside of A stadium / coliseum. I'm. Sure there are tons br people. Carrying at talladega this weekend. Kevinb would likely. Be the best to answer it.
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first, Dred, the reason you make 3 patrolmen nervous is because you look like it will take 6 of them to start bringing your bigass down.
that's the same reason I keep my hands in plain sight and don't move until told to move when I'm stopped. I know what I look like and if you don't know me I probably look like more of a handful that you want to hold onto late at night or early in the morning. if holding my piece while we talk keeps a cop from wanting to ventilate me I'm good with it as long as I get it back in the same condition as it was taken, unloaded is ok but not broken or missing parts.
Quote from: klaviator on October 12, 2017, 12:41:06 PM
Another question. You are out riding someplace like the BRP or a national park and stop at a visitors center. You want to go in but guns are illegal in all federal buildings including visitors centers. What do you do with the gun? I have lockable storage on all my bikes but what if you don't?
On the same note, many places have no guns allowed signs. The laws really vary as to what this means. In Alabama you can often just ignore those signs but not always. I did some research before riding to the Vintage fest last weekend. It has a no guns policy. So I did some research. Alabama law does not allow guns at sporting events. I assume racing is a sporting event. But what if you are just going to the museum?
BTW I left my gun at home for vintage fest.
Technically you can no longer carry at a rest stop in Alabama either. But I've always said "Concealed means concealed." No one knows but me that there's a gun on my hip then no problem. Gun is much safer on my hip than in a saddlebag. Plus drawing it from my holster in the parking lot to put it in a bag might freak some folks out.
Also, the CCW app is a great resource for reciprocity info and other useful tidbits. Free in the Google Play Store.
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"Technically you can no longer carry at a rest stop in Alabama either."
Actually, our last governor removed that restriction. It has been legal for at least a couple of years now.
This has been a really useful thread! Thanks for helping me earn my baccalaureate degree in gun carryology! :respect-048:
Quote from: renchinrider on October 15, 2017, 09:58:15 PM
This has been a really useful thread! Thanks for helping me earn my baccalaureate degree in gun carryology! :respect-048:
Haha. And we didn't even get into type of handguns, caliber choice, and holster styles...I don't think this forum needs to dive into that rabbit hole.
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Quote from: gulfcoaster on October 16, 2017, 03:08:11 PM
..I don't think this forum needs to dive into that rabbit hole.
rabbit holes are awesome? :others-154:
Well *ahem* I am selling tickets for a chance at 100 different firearms. This is not the place for that much off topic solicitation so contact me through private message if you'd like to learn more :)