Title: Tire defects
Post by: IceCold4x4 on February 08, 2018, 09:50:01 AM
Post by: IceCold4x4 on February 08, 2018, 09:50:01 AM
So the other day I rode the duc and had a small issue with the rear tire. Ok small isn't a good description more like a pants soiling OMG moment. I was riding down 20 doing 80 to 90 on the duc speedo when I started feeling a slight vibration, non long after maybe 30 seconds I passed an 18 wheeler and felt the bike get a bit wobbly like the wing was picking up and I was getting buffeted, not horrible but more than I felt was normal, about a mile or so down the road I passed another one this time it was much much worse so I decided to get off at the next exit as I dropped below 70 the bike started to wag the tail, at 40ish I felt the bead let go and it became a serious handful, probably and honest 20 to 30 degree side to side tank slapper feeling. Managed to get it stopped without the rear passing me and these pictures are what I found.
Looks like it just blew a chunk out. I had checked the pressure that morning at 10:30 before heading to work an the rear was holding 34 psi, I left work at 2 with the bike feeling normal, made it from Avondale to just after the second Leeds exit before something felt wrong. I called chaparral who I bought the tires from at the end of November 2017 and had them mounted beginning of December th e date code was 20th week of 17 so they aren't old and old have 300ish miles on them. They threw up just enough of a barrier to trying to warranty them thst I just ordered a new tire in the mean time. Yesterday I sent Michelin an email just to see what they'd say. So when you have new tires and check the pressure ya never know what may happen. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180208/9bc5eac8b2b48eac22a034aa09c1b5b5.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180208/f867322d1d43720a4f7cce6b1ea16534.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180208/908127dfec5f8331411546742b7d4dcd.jpg)
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Looks like it just blew a chunk out. I had checked the pressure that morning at 10:30 before heading to work an the rear was holding 34 psi, I left work at 2 with the bike feeling normal, made it from Avondale to just after the second Leeds exit before something felt wrong. I called chaparral who I bought the tires from at the end of November 2017 and had them mounted beginning of December th e date code was 20th week of 17 so they aren't old and old have 300ish miles on them. They threw up just enough of a barrier to trying to warranty them thst I just ordered a new tire in the mean time. Yesterday I sent Michelin an email just to see what they'd say. So when you have new tires and check the pressure ya never know what may happen. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180208/9bc5eac8b2b48eac22a034aa09c1b5b5.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180208/f867322d1d43720a4f7cce6b1ea16534.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180208/908127dfec5f8331411546742b7d4dcd.jpg)
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Title: Re: Tire defects
Post by: IceCold4x4 on February 08, 2018, 11:20:41 AM
Post by: IceCold4x4 on February 08, 2018, 11:20:41 AM
Got this back from Michelin. Anyone recommend where to take it to forward this along as I did not purchase it local? (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180208/86ec6c3af965d55bd04e678918427f77.jpg)
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Title: Re: Tire defects
Post by: springer on February 08, 2018, 12:19:59 PM
Post by: springer on February 08, 2018, 12:19:59 PM
Take it to any motorcycle dealer that sells Michelin motorcycle tires with a copy of the reply from Michelin.
If they give you any hassel and/or just refuse to help write down the name of the persons involved then go to another dealer. Replete if you have to until you find a dealer that will do what Michelin wants you to do.
Send all the information back to Michelin.
You can do a YouTube video explaining what happened, what Michelin said to, and what you did. Be calm and factual during the video. At the end of the video say you will make another video when Michelin gets back to you.
Include the link of that video to Michelin. (Put a little pressure on them)
If they help you by replacing the tire, send you a coupon for another tire or 1/2 price what ever, do another video telling what they did plus any praise or negative. Then send Michelin another note with that link.
Yea, alot of work but it could help you get some satisfaction.
If they give you any hassel and/or just refuse to help write down the name of the persons involved then go to another dealer. Replete if you have to until you find a dealer that will do what Michelin wants you to do.
Send all the information back to Michelin.
You can do a YouTube video explaining what happened, what Michelin said to, and what you did. Be calm and factual during the video. At the end of the video say you will make another video when Michelin gets back to you.
Include the link of that video to Michelin. (Put a little pressure on them)
If they help you by replacing the tire, send you a coupon for another tire or 1/2 price what ever, do another video telling what they did plus any praise or negative. Then send Michelin another note with that link.
Yea, alot of work but it could help you get some satisfaction.
Title: Re: Tire defects
Post by: Fencejumper09 on February 08, 2018, 12:58:22 PM
Post by: Fencejumper09 on February 08, 2018, 12:58:22 PM
That sucks and i am glad you are ok!
Maybe get a number for a nail salon while you are at it, at least pick up some anti-fungal! :D
Maybe get a number for a nail salon while you are at it, at least pick up some anti-fungal! :D
Title: Re: Tire defects
Post by: IceCold4x4 on February 08, 2018, 02:08:45 PM
Post by: IceCold4x4 on February 08, 2018, 02:08:45 PM
Quote from: Fencejumper09 on February 08, 2018, 12:58:22 PMThat's Rodney's thumb....
That sucks and i am glad you are ok!
Maybe get a number for a nail salon while you are at it, at least pick up some anti-fungal! :D
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Title: Re: Tire defects
Post by: Fencejumper09 on February 08, 2018, 02:15:58 PM
Post by: Fencejumper09 on February 08, 2018, 02:15:58 PM
I'll allow it
Title: Re: Tire defects
Post by: Sweeper on February 08, 2018, 08:41:22 PM
Post by: Sweeper on February 08, 2018, 08:41:22 PM
You are not the only one. I saw pictures online late last year and the story was very much the same. I'm sorry I can't remember where it was. I've not been running their tires for the last couple of sets. You might Google it and see what ammo you can find. Glad you're OK except for the shorts.
Title: Re: Tire defects
Post by: norton73 on February 09, 2018, 08:54:56 AM
Post by: norton73 on February 09, 2018, 08:54:56 AM
Rodney can't deal with Michelin for you?
Title: Re: Tire defects
Post by: LawnmowerRG on February 09, 2018, 11:36:09 AM
Post by: LawnmowerRG on February 09, 2018, 11:36:09 AM
I can, but I am not a Michelin dealer so he actually has more pull than I do as the end purchaser.
I can get Michelin tires through another local shop if you want them. I will sell them to you at an appropriate price. I will give the same deal to mount them and balance them.
The buy in for all the suppliers is a lot of money, And they all have a minimum yearly purchase amount. We can't meet the yearly purchase for all of them combined at this point.
I can get Michelin tires through another local shop if you want them. I will sell them to you at an appropriate price. I will give the same deal to mount them and balance them.
The buy in for all the suppliers is a lot of money, And they all have a minimum yearly purchase amount. We can't meet the yearly purchase for all of them combined at this point.
Title: Re: Tire defects
Post by: DachshundUberAlles on February 09, 2018, 06:50:40 PM
Post by: DachshundUberAlles on February 09, 2018, 06:50:40 PM
This is the quandary one runs into when they choose to bypass the local dealer and purchase from the internet supplier.
Title: Re: Tire defects
Post by: kylepeterson on February 10, 2018, 05:50:22 PM
Post by: kylepeterson on February 10, 2018, 05:50:22 PM
Quote from: DachshundUberAlles on February 09, 2018, 06:50:40 PM
This is the quandary one runs into when they choose to bypass the local dealer and purchase from the internet supplier.
Supply chain should have zero influence on replacement and liability this just proves how stupid and limited our consumer rights are
Title: Re: Tire defects
Post by: DachshundUberAlles on February 11, 2018, 01:28:16 PM
Post by: DachshundUberAlles on February 11, 2018, 01:28:16 PM
Quote from: kylepeterson on February 10, 2018, 05:50:22 PM
Supply chain should have zero influence on replacement and liability this just proves how stupid and limited our consumer rights are
The OP CHOSE to buy from the internet supplier. Why is resolution now the responsibility of a local dealership?
Title: Re: Tire defects
Post by: KevinB on February 11, 2018, 02:08:20 PM
Post by: KevinB on February 11, 2018, 02:08:20 PM
Because if they choose to be a Michelin dealer, then they should also deal with product warranty issues on behalf of Michelin.
In 2005 I had a local Honda dealer refuse to do warranty work on my recently purchased Rancher atv. I called Mother H and they were not amused. Their position was the same...if you choose to carry and sell Honda products, then you also choose to deal with warranty issues with their products regardless of where they were purchased.
In 2005 I had a local Honda dealer refuse to do warranty work on my recently purchased Rancher atv. I called Mother H and they were not amused. Their position was the same...if you choose to carry and sell Honda products, then you also choose to deal with warranty issues with their products regardless of where they were purchased.
Title: Re: Tire defects
Post by: IceCold4x4 on February 11, 2018, 03:04:21 PM
Post by: IceCold4x4 on February 11, 2018, 03:04:21 PM
Quote from: DachshundUberAlles on February 11, 2018, 01:28:16 PMI'll admit I got a screaming deal on 2 tires right before Xmas. My next pair will be purchased from Rodney.
The OP CHOSE to buy from the internet supplier. Why is resolution now the responsibility of a local dealership?
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Title: Re: Tire defects
Post by: Nice Goat on February 12, 2018, 04:55:43 AM
Post by: Nice Goat on February 12, 2018, 04:55:43 AM
Not sure how purchasing a tire online vs in a shop is relevant to the quality of the tire or the manufacturer's obligation to honor warranties expressed or implied. The manufacturer has a right to make sure that the product was installed correctly and not abused, which is what they are trying to determine now. I am sure that they get plenty of unfounded claims every year, so they are trying to verify the legitimacy of this particular claim.
The larger question for me is... what methods of installing tires would void the warranty? Lots of people choose to install tires themselves to save money, using various methods ranging from tire irons and zip ties all the way to using No-Mar tire changers. Is any of that relevant to the warranty?
The larger question for me is... what methods of installing tires would void the warranty? Lots of people choose to install tires themselves to save money, using various methods ranging from tire irons and zip ties all the way to using No-Mar tire changers. Is any of that relevant to the warranty?
Title: Re: Tire defects
Post by: Hammerdown77 on February 12, 2018, 05:15:13 AM
Post by: Hammerdown77 on February 12, 2018, 05:15:13 AM
Only if they could show that you damaged the tire on install.
'Course, I'm not a lawyer so that could be completely wrong.
'Course, I'm not a lawyer so that could be completely wrong.
Title: Re: Tire defects
Post by: klaviator on February 12, 2018, 09:51:29 AM
Post by: klaviator on February 12, 2018, 09:51:29 AM
Quote from: Hammerdown77 on February 12, 2018, 05:15:13 AM
Only if they could show that you damaged the tire on install.
'Course, I'm not a lawyer so that could be completely wrong.
I could see damaging the bead during installation but I don't see how you would cause the type of failure that happened here.
Since I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night I could be wrong :D
Title: Re: Tire defects
Post by: Hammerdown77 on February 12, 2018, 10:54:27 AM
Post by: Hammerdown77 on February 12, 2018, 10:54:27 AM
Since he wasn't hurt and isn't threatening legal action, I don't see why they wouldn't just send him a new tire pronto. Analysis after.
Seems like a pretty inexpensive claim resolution on their part.
Seems like a pretty inexpensive claim resolution on their part.
Title: Re: Tire defects
Post by: SpeedyR on February 12, 2018, 03:38:46 PM
Post by: SpeedyR on February 12, 2018, 03:38:46 PM
lots of different issues and questions here...
the main thing that Michelin is trying to determine is if there was an issue with the tire that was a manufacturing defect. Just because the tire is blown up has no bearing on if it's a manufacturing defect.
Typically when a tire is run at low pressure, it will overheat and then chunk sections of tread off and can come off the bead. So running a tire at low pressure could be on problem that would cause this.
knowing that the pressure was correct in the morning is a big step in the right direction, but a simple nail in the tire would lead to loss of pressure and then possible delimitation of the tire tread. So when he was feeling the "wiggle" that would probably be the loss of pressure, and then it gets bad when it chunks, but that would have been towards the end of what happened to the tire, as you would feel that big of a chunk missing if you were going freeway speeds with that much missing. Low pressure will very quickly lead to overheating and delamination (remember the Ford Explorer SUV's?). If you don't think this is the case, drop your pressure to 5psi and take a short ride on your bike and see how much heat you generate at low speeds. Ok, really don't do this, just trust me.
So now they need to have a dealer remove the tire and check it for any holes. The issue here is that it could be in the area of the blowout/delamination. That makes it hard to figure out the cause. Maybe it's easier and in another section of tread.
As for the "dealer" the only "authorized" dealers would be someone like Sportbike Track Time that actually buys tires from Michelin vs. any moto dealer that is a Parts Unlimited/Tucker/WPS dealer that might have the option to purchase the tires. That's where having a local shop that you can work with and trust comes in handy. If you buy all of your product online, what's in it for the local dealer to do the work for michelin? IF they remove the tire, find a hole in the tire that is what caused the delamination, and it's not a manufacturing defect, now the dealer spent a bunch of time doing work for the customer that they may or may not be reimbursed for.
It's a tough situation. If Michelin knows there's an issues with a specific tire or setup, they may be more likely to just replace the tire without too much effort on your part. But if it's a common tire, with a common size that's been sold for years without any issues, they are assuming that the issue is not a manufacturing defect and merely a flat tire that didn't get caught in time.
just some things to think about. I worked for a tire company for a few years and dealt with a lot of tire issues, but 98% of the time there was nothing wrong with the tires, it was the person sitting on the seat. BUT there were times that there were issues with tires. Even in those situations, as an employee, it was easier to just have the customer contact CS and let them do their thing. If there was something that didn't happen correctly, I could see if I could step in to rectify the situation, but in the one situation where there was a failure that I personally know of, they replaced the tire and paid to repair the damage to the bike.
Typically with mounting tire, the only issue normally could be bead breakage, but that's pretty quick to notice, as the tire won't seat and hold air in many cases. In this case, the issue was the delamination and what caused it.
the main thing that Michelin is trying to determine is if there was an issue with the tire that was a manufacturing defect. Just because the tire is blown up has no bearing on if it's a manufacturing defect.
Typically when a tire is run at low pressure, it will overheat and then chunk sections of tread off and can come off the bead. So running a tire at low pressure could be on problem that would cause this.
knowing that the pressure was correct in the morning is a big step in the right direction, but a simple nail in the tire would lead to loss of pressure and then possible delimitation of the tire tread. So when he was feeling the "wiggle" that would probably be the loss of pressure, and then it gets bad when it chunks, but that would have been towards the end of what happened to the tire, as you would feel that big of a chunk missing if you were going freeway speeds with that much missing. Low pressure will very quickly lead to overheating and delamination (remember the Ford Explorer SUV's?). If you don't think this is the case, drop your pressure to 5psi and take a short ride on your bike and see how much heat you generate at low speeds. Ok, really don't do this, just trust me.
So now they need to have a dealer remove the tire and check it for any holes. The issue here is that it could be in the area of the blowout/delamination. That makes it hard to figure out the cause. Maybe it's easier and in another section of tread.
As for the "dealer" the only "authorized" dealers would be someone like Sportbike Track Time that actually buys tires from Michelin vs. any moto dealer that is a Parts Unlimited/Tucker/WPS dealer that might have the option to purchase the tires. That's where having a local shop that you can work with and trust comes in handy. If you buy all of your product online, what's in it for the local dealer to do the work for michelin? IF they remove the tire, find a hole in the tire that is what caused the delamination, and it's not a manufacturing defect, now the dealer spent a bunch of time doing work for the customer that they may or may not be reimbursed for.
It's a tough situation. If Michelin knows there's an issues with a specific tire or setup, they may be more likely to just replace the tire without too much effort on your part. But if it's a common tire, with a common size that's been sold for years without any issues, they are assuming that the issue is not a manufacturing defect and merely a flat tire that didn't get caught in time.
just some things to think about. I worked for a tire company for a few years and dealt with a lot of tire issues, but 98% of the time there was nothing wrong with the tires, it was the person sitting on the seat. BUT there were times that there were issues with tires. Even in those situations, as an employee, it was easier to just have the customer contact CS and let them do their thing. If there was something that didn't happen correctly, I could see if I could step in to rectify the situation, but in the one situation where there was a failure that I personally know of, they replaced the tire and paid to repair the damage to the bike.
Typically with mounting tire, the only issue normally could be bead breakage, but that's pretty quick to notice, as the tire won't seat and hold air in many cases. In this case, the issue was the delamination and what caused it.
Title: Re: Tire defects
Post by: IceCold4x4 on February 13, 2018, 09:36:52 PM
Post by: IceCold4x4 on February 13, 2018, 09:36:52 PM
Heard back from Michelin today. They are going to cover half the price of the tire. Meh I'm OK with that. Picked up the tire and wheel from cycle gear and I'll wait on on the new tire to have Rodney mount it. I'll even let him use the proper tools this time... Lol. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180214/97096d5b7750bd0b967e66939d5a681e.jpg)
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Title: Re: Tire defects
Post by: kylepeterson on February 15, 2018, 08:28:10 AM
Post by: kylepeterson on February 15, 2018, 08:28:10 AM
I'm really surprised they manufacturer didn't offer to replace the tire.
Over the last decade I've had two sets of tires (car) recalled. Over the last decade I've had one tire failure (motorcycle) that was replaced by the manufacturer. All of the above were separation/delamination issues.
I can't believe the manufacturer doesn't want to get the tire back and actually look at it. Yes, I know it's been changed by heat/low pressure, but there are experienced eyes at the factory/lab that can spot other issues.
Bewildered.
Over the last decade I've had two sets of tires (car) recalled. Over the last decade I've had one tire failure (motorcycle) that was replaced by the manufacturer. All of the above were separation/delamination issues.
I can't believe the manufacturer doesn't want to get the tire back and actually look at it. Yes, I know it's been changed by heat/low pressure, but there are experienced eyes at the factory/lab that can spot other issues.
Bewildered.
Title: Re: Tire defects
Post by: Nice Goat on February 15, 2018, 09:07:13 AM
Post by: Nice Goat on February 15, 2018, 09:07:13 AM
Quote from: kylepeterson on February 15, 2018, 08:28:10 AM
I'm really surprised they manufacturer didn't offer to replace the tire.
Over the last decade I've had two sets of tires (car) recalled. Over the last decade I've had one tire failure (motorcycle) that was replaced by the manufacturer. All of the above were separation/delamination issues.
I can't believe the manufacturer doesn't want to get the tire back and actually look at it. Yes, I know it's been changed by heat/low pressure, but there are experienced eyes at the factory/lab that can spot other issues.
Bewildered.
Some VP Operations decided to include "Reduce Warranty Claims" in the performance bonus this year. One way to reduce warranty claims is to simply deny them.
Title: Re: Tire defects
Post by: LawnmowerRG on March 27, 2018, 11:01:46 AM
Post by: LawnmowerRG on March 27, 2018, 11:01:46 AM
I know this is an old thread.
But as an FYI we now have Michelin, Shinko, Maxxis, Sedona, and Pirelli.
But as an FYI we now have Michelin, Shinko, Maxxis, Sedona, and Pirelli.
Title: Re: Tire defects
Post by: David DoubleEX on March 29, 2018, 03:49:03 PM
Post by: David DoubleEX on March 29, 2018, 03:49:03 PM
I had a good run in with Michelin. I got new tires mounted to my V Strom and right around that time also dropped my bike in the parking lot at work. I believe it tweaked the forks just enough to get make the wheel bounce at high speed (70+.) But I thought it was due to a bad tire. Had the shop check banance a few times and then called Michelin and told them the tire wasnt round.
Michelin talked to the shop owner and then sent me a replacement tire. threw on the new tire and same result. We then loosened the forks and smacked them around and the bouncing went away.
I didnt offer to send the tire back, I have it waiting in storage for when I need it!
Long story short, Michelin was quick to send me a me a new tire based off mine and the shop owners word. It was a good experience.
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Michelin talked to the shop owner and then sent me a replacement tire. threw on the new tire and same result. We then loosened the forks and smacked them around and the bouncing went away.
I didnt offer to send the tire back, I have it waiting in storage for when I need it!
Long story short, Michelin was quick to send me a me a new tire based off mine and the shop owners word. It was a good experience.
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