A few years ago Honda introduced the Grom. It was a runaway sales success and dealers had long waiting lines for that bike. The waiting lines are gone but I heard recently that the Grom is by far Honda's best selling bike. I haven't verified this. Kawasaki now has the Z125 and it seems to be selling well. Kymco has two entries in this class, the K pipe and the Spade. Both were on display at the vintage fest.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/2017-pics/i-LVxQbxx/0/5bee6c02/XL/PA070003-XL.jpg)
I was drooling over the Spade.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/2017-pics/i-PXmdHd8/0/94c0e84a/XL/PA070008-XL.jpg)
To be honest I was also drooling over the Like 150i next to it.
I was recently at Deal's Gap and saw several Grom's there. I talked to a guy on a Z125. He said he also had an RC51 but the Z125 was more fun on the dragon.
Last time I went to Two Wheels of Suches two guys older than me had bought Grom's. We had three young guys show up on Grom's at Gymkhana. Those bikes were set up for stunting.
So these tiny bikes are popular with both young and old riders. They are inexpensive compared to bigger bikes. And they are not really very practical although they would certainly makes inexpensive around town commuters.
Right now these bikes are very popular but is it just a fad or is it the wave of the future, maybe the thing that really brings millenials into the world of motorcycling?
I think that is much like asking if the Honda CT70 was just a fad. I guess because they stopped making them? But how many did we see this weekend? And they are so much damn fun. I rode my 2nd Grom at the last gymkhana, and I grinned the whole time. It was a bit tight with my big knees, so that got in the way (I am thinking ape hangers?)
(http://www.barre.net/MoCyAdventures/Multi/multi-ape%20hangers.jpg)
Practical? certainly not for me, not sure there is anyway it could be?
Fun? You bet. Hours!
If you don't think they are fun watch this video below, and check out more Grom racing on You Tube - some of it is intense!
I'm split on the grom / z125 bikes. I've had some real fun on small bikes but at the end of the day to me they are just toys and not serious bikes. Maybe it's the lack of power? (I am a rather large ham fisted dum dum when it comes to that) riding the kazuma out at the ridge, and around the warehouse at work has been some of my better times on 2 wheels, however I can't see owning a grom as for 2 or 3 grand it's almost what what finishing the suspension on my big boy bike would cost. Maybe it's because I'm 6ft and on the high side of 250 lbs. for me personally i can't get around the fact that they just seem like toys, and that for the same money I could put another big bike in the garage.
All that being said, I'm leaning more towards thinking they are just and old segment reborn. They'll stick around for 5 to 10 years maybe longer if electric versions take off. But they are cool.
Quote from: IceCold4x4 on October 11, 2017, 12:33:08 AM
I'm split on the grom / z125 bikes. I've had some real fun on small bikes but at the end of the day to me they are just toys and not serious bikes. Maybe it's the lack of power? (I am a rather large ham fisted dum dum when it comes to that) riding the kazuma out at the ridge, and around the warehouse at work has been some of my better times on 2 wheels, however I can't see owning a grom as for 2 or 3 grand it's almost what what finishing the suspension on my big boy bike would cost. Maybe it's because I'm 6ft and on the high side of 250 lbs. for me personally i can't get around the fact that they just seem like toys, and that for the same money I could put another big bike in the garage.
All that being said, I'm leaning more towards thinking they are just and old segment reborn. They'll stick around for 5 to 10 years maybe longer if electric versions take off. But they are cool.
I'm sure a lot of people look at these bikes the same way you do. Let's face it, they are just toys. But then, isn't that exactly what motorcycles are to most people, at least in this country. Unless you use your bike for commuting, isn't it just a toy?
Hey, I'm a big fan of small bikes but the "it's just a toy" thing is probably the reason I don't own one. Instead I have a small scooter (actually 2 of them at the moment) which offers much of the fun of something like a Grom but I can justify it because I use it to commute almost every day.
Of course you are a fairly big guy and these bikes are tiny. If the past is any indication, this class of bike will have displacement "creep". Kymco has already upped the ante with 150cc and five speed. Lets say Yamaha decided to one up everyone and came out with a 175cc bike that was also a bit physically bigger so you fit on it better. Would you be interested then?
I like the tiny bikes. If I had money to burn and wanted a cool play bike, I'd spring for one.
This guy is the top of the heap for high-end, Top Shelf stuff for all the "small bikes"
https://mnnthbx.com/
He is a jam up good photographer and all-around nice guy. Perusing all the pics makes me want to "go there" but to get to that level, it is not a cheap game to play.
They recently did heavy mods to VIN #1 Spade. There was a summary right up somewhere but I can't find it right now.
(I think it was on FB)
https://mnnthbx.com/2017/05/24/kymco-spade/
This might have been the bike they modified:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/2017-pics/i-hbdhTRp/0/240518d2/XL/PA070035-XL.jpg)
The Ohlins shocks alone are $1325!
The exhaust is $359
The mods probably double the price of the bike. Personally I like the looks of the stock bike better. The one I took a pic of did have the exhaust which does look good.
Here's the full price list of goodies for the bike: http://www.kymcousa.com/2018_SellSheets/2018_Spade150_SellSheet.pdf (http://www.kymcousa.com/2018_SellSheets/2018_Spade150_SellSheet.pdf)
Quote from: klaviator on October 11, 2017, 12:28:07 PM
This might have been the bike they modified
Yes, that is it.
As I said.... Top Shelf and not a cheap game to play.
But one need not spend all that money to have a nice small bike to play around on.
Basic mods can come at much lower $$.
Quote from: Brian A on October 11, 2017, 12:33:13 PM
Quote from: klaviator on October 11, 2017, 12:28:07 PM
This might have been the bike they modified
Yes, that is it.
As I said.... Top Shelf and not a cheap game to play.
But one need not spend all that money to have a nice small bike to play around on.
Basic mods can come at much lower $$.
Cheap? That's all relative. Compared to buying an R1 and then adding a bunch of aftermarket stuff it is cheap. Add in the savings from the insurance and tickets you won't get, it is cheap.
But as you said, you don't need all that stuff to have fun. IMO, one of the attractions of these tiny bikes is they are cheap fun. If I got one I'd keep the add ons to a minimum. Whats the point of Ohlins shocks on a 65 MPH bike? Nice to have but not worth $1325 IMO.
Truth /\
For quite a while now my interest and migration has been to smaller (relative) bikes.
I dropped two 1000CC bikes in the few years prior to buying the Versys 650.
I can't deny that I occasionally get an itch to get a street bike that is much smaller (displacement and/or size).
The Ninja 250/300 and the Yamaha R3 have some appeal but not sure the sport oriented riding would suit my wrist/shoulder/neck problems.
The Spade would be the smaller bike that I think would interest me most. More practical/functional and a little more displacement and power compared to the Grom/Z125.
Maybe one day....
/\ We think a lot alike. I've also been thinking an R3 would be cool to have. The riding position is actually pretty upright. The biggest issues to comfort would probably be cramped leg room and the seat. An aftermarket seat or seat pad might help with that.
Back to the topic on hand, tiny bikes. I'm not in the market for a new bike right now. (disclaimer, I bought 2 of my last three bikes when I wasn't in the market for a new bike :lol-049:). If I was, I might consider a Spade. It wouldn't be a logical buy but it just appeals to me. I could see taking it to Deal's Gap or Suches and having a blast on curvy roads. Crow mountain would be fun too. Maybe I could add a detachable tail trunk and or at least a luggage rack and use it for commuting?
I think having some friends to ride with who also had tiny bikes would really add to the fun factor :DANCING-banana-032:
If they made a 6 ft fat guy compatible grom that was capable of maintaining 70 up hill I'd definitely be much more interested as it would become more than a toy.
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So, my experience with the Grom I owned was great. I bought it for my 14 year old to have, he had no interest. So, I rode the piss out of it.
I am 6 2 and the bike was not comfortable but I dealt with it because it was so much fun.
As far as speed, that bike would go plenty fast where I wanted to, in the twistys.
As far as road worthy, it's a 125 so we can't expect a Goldwing. 62 mph with my 125 lb ass was plenty, add the wife and it still did 62 two up.
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You, at 6'2", plus your wife, two-up on a Grom??
Pictures or it didn't happen!
Just from the perspective of working at a dealership as well as being a millennial , I don't think small bikes are going anywhere anytime soon. With their affordability and power range they are perfect for inner city. I always manage to see a grom, a z125, or even say a lower cc ninja 300 or yamaha R3 in just about every city I have ever visited. The vintage scene I believe has really helped build this presence. I have had more friends buy old enduros and small 350 and below retro bikes. The small bikes are great for if you plan to just take the backroads or hit the inner city.
It seems like the industry as a whole is trying to get smaller. Huge cruisers are losing ground and it seems like more people are aiming for something different in every segment. The Z and the Grom are for sure different. (I hope Yamaha will make something in that segment) It will be interesting to see how the industry morphs and changes in the next 5 or 10 years. I am really hoping the adventure bike scene grows again and brands start focusing on re-developing the smaller cc adventure and endure bikes for the guys that aren't wanting to race or drive to Dubai. Maybe kymco will enter the scene full force.
Just in case someone from Yamaha is reading this, how's this for an idea:
Take the 155cc motor from the Smax scooter (14.8 HP vs 9.4 for the Grom) and replace the CVT with a 5 speed manual tranny. Put it in a frame just a bit bigger than the Grom. Use the Smax wheel sizes: 12/70-13 front and 130/70-13 rear.
You would have a Grom killer that even bigger riders could fit on :applause-003: :applause-003: :applause-003:
Quote from: klaviator on October 12, 2017, 08:56:07 PM
Just in case someone from Yamaha is reading this, how's this for an idea:
Take the 155cc motor from the Smax scooter (14.8 HP vs 9.4 for the Grom) and replace the CVT with a 5 speed manual tranny. Put it in a frame just a bit bigger than the Grom. Use the Smax wheel sizes: 12/70-13 front and 130/70-13 rear.
You would have a Grom killer that even bigger riders could fit on :applause-003: :applause-003: :applause-003:
Yup that sounds like a damn good plan. Seriously keep the bike weight sub 200 lbs and ya have a winner.
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Quote from: IceCold4x4 on October 13, 2017, 07:34:39 AM
Quote from: klaviator on October 12, 2017, 08:56:07 PM
Just in case someone from Yamaha is reading this, how's this for an idea:
Take the 155cc motor from the Smax scooter (14.8 HP vs 9.4 for the Grom) and replace the CVT with a 5 speed manual tranny. Put it in a frame just a bit bigger than the Grom. Use the Smax wheel sizes: 12/70-13 front and 130/70-13 rear.
You would have a Grom killer that even bigger riders could fit on :applause-003: :applause-003: :applause-003:
Yup that sounds like a damn good plan. Seriously keep the bike weight sub 200 lbs and ya have a winner.
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The Grom is around 230 pounds and the Spade 266 so this would be a fair amount heavier than either. My Smax is 328 pounds. It would likely be lighter than that. It would still be a very small, lightweight and easily flickable bike.
I vote bring back the Yamaha YSR and whoop the snot out of the competition. That bike looks dang good. Just make sure to offer that retro Marlboro race team edition and I wont ride anything else!! :DANCING-banana-032: :DANCING-banana-032: :DANCING-banana-032: :DANCING-banana-032: :DANCING-banana-032: :DANCING-banana-032: :DANCING-banana-032:
Quote from: Campbell92 on October 13, 2017, 12:07:48 PM
I vote bring back the Yamaha YSR and whoop the snot out of the competition. That bike looks dang good. Just make sure to offer that retro Marlboro race team edition and I wont ride anything else!! :DANCING-banana-032: :DANCING-banana-032: :DANCING-banana-032: :DANCING-banana-032: :DANCING-banana-032: :DANCING-banana-032: :DANCING-banana-032:
The original YSR was a 50cc two smoke. I don't think that would go over today. Maybe a YSR155 with the Smax motor?
Quote from: klaviator on October 13, 2017, 01:18:20 PM
Quote from: Campbell92 on October 13, 2017, 12:07:48 PM
I vote bring back the Yamaha YSR and whoop the snot out of the competition. That bike looks dang good. Just make sure to offer that retro Marlboro race team edition and I wont ride anything else!! :DANCING-banana-032: :DANCING-banana-032: :DANCING-banana-032: :DANCING-banana-032: :DANCING-banana-032: :DANCING-banana-032: :DANCING-banana-032:
The original YSR was a 50cc two smoke. I don't think that would go over today. Maybe a YSR155 with the Smax motor?
That is what I was leaning toward. I know the two smoke would not play too well, but use the same concept/style and keep the name and we would be in business. Maybe even go as far as redesigning and going with that naked fz styling.
I think the naked FZ stying would work better on this type of bike and was what I was thinking about. Of course they could use the same engine and chassis to make two different bikes, sort of like the R1 and FZ1. More choice is always good.
If Yamaha doesn't jump on the bandwagon on this then I think you should talk Steve into becoming a Kymco dealer :idea-013:
I've thought seriously about the grom to get my son into the big boy side of riding, he digs them, I couldn't really see me riding one though. not because its small but because I'm so large. they are really cool though and I've been keeping my eye on the electric side of things lately, although I don't think they are anywhere near competing across the board with gas engines yet but its much closer than it's ever been.
that being said, I'd be closer to buying a smaller standard bike for him to get his street feet wet so to speak. but he's not quite old enough for a licence and sence I just sold my bike yesterday we're probably going to stay in the yard on a couple dirt bikes for the forseeable future.
Quote from: Slede on October 14, 2017, 01:39:30 AM
I've thought seriously about the grom to get my son into the big boy side of riding, he digs them, I couldn't really see me riding one though. not because its small but because I'm so large. they are really cool though and I've been keeping my eye on the electric side of things lately, although I don't think they are anywhere near competing across the board with gas engines yet but its much closer than it's ever been.
that being said, I'd be closer to buying a smaller standard bike for him to get his street feet wet so to speak. but he's not quite old enough for a licence and sence I just sold my bike yesterday we're probably going to stay in the yard on a couple dirt bikes for the forseeable future.
You know the street bike he neeeeeeeds
Mark probably still has the original parts, to restore it to full height.
(http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/xx202/KrisCook/898809_zpsj5jt20vu.jpg) (http://s756.photobucket.com/user/KrisCook/media/898809_zpsj5jt20vu.jpg.html)
How about this Grom?
https://www.facebook.com/CycleNews/videos/10156637999905278/ (https://www.facebook.com/CycleNews/videos/10156637999905278/)
All this talk about tiny bikes...you're just talking about everything I want in a bike, just a little more power than that. These are all K-Rex sized bikes :bike-038:
Quote from: klaviator on October 13, 2017, 01:18:20 PM
The original YSR was a 50cc two smoke. I don't think that would go over today. Maybe a YSR155 with the Smax motor?
Ohh, but the YSR 80 was a little screamer!
YZ 80 in a sport mini.
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Hell kx100 2 smoke would be really sweet in a mini...
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Quote from: Slede on October 14, 2017, 01:39:30 AM
I've thought seriously about the grom to get my son into the big boy side of riding, he digs them, I couldn't really see me riding one though. not because its small but because I'm so large. they are really cool though and I've been keeping my eye on the electric side of things lately, although I don't think they are anywhere near competing across the board with gas engines yet but its much closer than it's ever been.
that being said, I'd be closer to buying a smaller standard bike for him to get his street feet wet so to speak. but he's not quite old enough for a licence and sence I just sold my bike yesterday we're probably going to stay in the yard on a couple dirt bikes for the forseeable future.
I am not condoning it, but I wouldn't worry too much about size as long as the bike is a pooch. I have seen 14 year olds with their bike license riding xt250s and bikes of the sort. As long as they are not ripping down the road and trying to be safe the police around here have been rather forgiving or just not given any care. Heck, the vintage scene has gotten so big you could probably get an old 2 stroke 125 or something for next to nothing. My first bike was a 1970 Yamaha CT1B 175 Enduro. $600 and one hell of a bike for kid.
I hate to chime in on the negative side, but I've just been through all of this with my daughter. I got a crf230l for her first bike before I knew the law had changed to limit her to a 150cc bike. I bought a new Grom for the year. She never was happy with it because it was so small and she lacked the confidence of most seasoned riders.
The real reason for my post...
Your insurance company will not cover an accident if they are breaking the law. I wanted so bad to let Grace ride that 230 but the thought of anything, even minor, happening just made it not possible. The cops aren't going to look that close unless they have reason. Your insurance company won't either, but it could get a lot more expensive with them.
Just my two cents for what its worth.
That's the catch. That is why I don't condone it. Insurance and government regulations have ended all the fun. I think this is why the small vintage scene may really catch on. A 150 2stroke can haul some tail and also be street legal. I know it is a larger engine size but I wish the small bike scene would lean more towards the physical size of the KTM Duke390. That could solve a ton of issues.
Quote from: Campbell92 on October 18, 2017, 03:44:56 PM
That's the catch. That is why I don't condone it. Insurance and government regulations have ended all the fun. I think this is why the small vintage scene may really catch on. A 150 2stroke can haul some tail and also be street legal. I know it is a larger engine size but I wish the small bike scene would lean more towards the physical size of the KTM Duke390. That could solve a ton of issues.
[/quote
Part of the appeal of a tiny bike is that.........it's tiny :idea-013: Make it big and you will no longer have a tiny bike.
Now we could start another thread about small bikes. Those are interesting too and they are making a real comeback. While small bikes, think Ninja 300, R3 or KTM390 are much more practical than tiny Bikes like the Grom, they lose some of the tiny, toy like feel of a tiny bike.
I bought a 2017 GROM back in February, mainly as a pit bike. I ride that thing all the time. It's an absolute hoot. Someone asked "what's the point of Ohlins on a mini bike?", you'll understand when you ride them back to back. I get the thought that people have in terms of the initial price coupled with the expenditure of kitting one out. There's SO MUCH stuff available, and I have fully kitted the chassis on mine. The only thing keeping me from going down the engine path is the enjoyment I get sightseeing on it. Sure, I'd love a 20+ hp bigbore upgrade, but my stock motored (even pipe) bike gets me nothing but smiles and waves on the days I'm out checking out neighborhoods. I doubt they'd be that friendly if it was piped up and in terms of performance gain, I view anything less than a bigbore kit as too little return for money spent. Heck, I'm beginning to think I need another one: Keep number one as it is for putting/cruising and make number two a little monster. Yeah, I could spend the same money as number two would cost to build and buy a larger bike instead, but then, I already have a larger bike.
Grom (and it's spinoffs from the other manufacturers) are just the natural evolution of the hopup kits from companies like BBR that allowed you to go crazy on Z50's, CRF50/70/80/100. Honda saw that and knew there was a market. It's just like their ATC's. Companies were selling the stew out of suspension kits for ATC185's and that led Honda to build the ATC200X. Vetter made a fortune selling Windjammer fairings for the original Gold Wing 1000's which led to the fully dressed factory versions.
In case Kawasaki is reading this, I'd like to see the Ninja 400 engine in the Versys-X
With the trend to urban living I see that the small bike is here to stay a while. Maybe not in the Grom/Z125 variety, but sub 500 for sure. I have recommended several people that live in B Ham look at the SR 400. I think it's a great platform for computing and even the weekend run to Cheaha on back roads. Not a bad price for what is a really good classic looking bike. Rebel 300 and 500 are also great choices too. KTM 390s are all sharp.
I think that the truth is that young people realize they can get into a fun motorcycle at a resonable price with a factor warranty. Remember most of them didn't grow up tinkering with old cars and bikes.
More fun than a barrel of Monkeys? Another choice if you want a tiny bike. It wouldn't make sense for me to buy one of these but I want one. I even fit on it pretty good and it has a comfortable seat, something many bigger bikes don't have.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/2019-PICS/i-rBzBqfC/0/763507cc/L/P1260001-L.jpg)
.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/2019-PICS/i-WPKTSGQ/0/1f9c78bd/L/P1260002-L.jpg)
This thing would be a hoot at Gymkhana!
That Monkey would be cheating at Gymkhana!
Quote from: Frank Smith on January 26, 2019, 03:08:15 PM
That Monkey would be cheating at Gymkhana!
If you ain't cheating you ain't trying!
I have ridden my Super 8 in Gymkhana a few times, that was cheating too!