https://powersports.honda.com/2019/crf450L.aspx#specifications
40 pounds heavier than a KTM, but nearly the same price... I'm excited anyway, but...
I want a cool-looking Rally version.
Oh yeah!
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Lighter than a CRF250L or KLX250. Itty bitty gas tank like all the other Japanese dual sports.
Honda totally dropped the ball on this one...
White fork guards would have looked much better. :)
(http://www.advpulse.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/2019-CRF-450L-dual-sport-motorcycle-m-gray-561x374.jpg)
Kudos for separating the turn signals from what looks like an easily-removable license plate mount monstrosity.
$10,399 is pretty pricey, must be the titanium gas tank. I wonder if this will be a bike you could put 20,000 miles on without a rebuild. If it is then I'm really interested! If the maintenance intervals are more like a dirt bike, then it's weight will make it hard for it to compete with the European bikes.
I find 289 lbs with fluids hard to believe on a street legal 450 from Honda. That said, if it really is that light and has Honda's legendary reliability, this could be a game changer. I'd take a rally version at 320 lbs please.
My guess... even with titanium intake valves, if you do not race it, and if you regularly change the oil and oil filter, and if you religiously clean the air filter... this bike will have legendary Honda reliability.
When I see a ride report over on AdvRider by someone who has ridden the TAT on one with no issues, I'll be looking hard at it.
Some good info on Dirtbike Test.
https://dirtbiketest.com/fresh-dirt/hondas-2019-crf450l-crf450x-trail-trail-legal/#xAJq2jlKwZq3zdDY.97
I'm predicting great things from this bike. It is almost exactly what every DRZ owner has been begging for. I could see me owning one in a few years. I've only owned one Honda before (1977 Trail 90) so I guess I should give them a shot.
It really only needs one item from the beginning. A bigger fuel tank. Seriously Honda, 2 gallons on a dual sport?
Some more details from their European website.
https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10 (https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10)
This line sounds really good!
"Based on the CRF450R, with first major service at 32,000km"
Roczen looks like Dirty Grandpa as he describes all of the bikes in the CRF lineup.
"Developed in tandem with our all-new 2019 CRF450X, it features a powerful 449cc Unicam engine, twin-spar aluminum CRF chassis, six-speed transmission,"....I've never payed much attention to the CRF450X but I saw some 2017 450X Dyno plots today that indicated ~49 h.p. This scoot is supposed to be comparable "Developed in tandem with" the X. That is notable and impressive if you've been riding a 36 +/- h.p. KLR, DR, etc. 650....and even more so if you've also been riding a 292 lb. XT 250 (16 h.p.).....which is (far and away) the funnest dual sport I've ever owned.
Six speed gear box on the CRF450L = +2 cool points.
Now, Yamaha owns the most shameful gap in dual sport / adventure bikes with an inexplicable void between 250cc and 1200cc.
The price for the CRF450L is ridiculous, IMO. But all bike prices seem to be (are) going ^ up. I'll likely be in the 2nd/3rd owner club from now on.
BTW...the only first-year model bike I ever bought that was a real show horse was a 1987 FZR 1000....$5400.00....can you even imagine, now days...(Deltabox, Genesis, 20 valves, do you remember)?
Quote from: Jwwr on May 23, 2018, 02:23:06 PM
$10,399 is pretty pricey, must be the titanium gas tank. I wonder if this will be a bike you could put 20,000 miles on without a rebuild. If it is then I'm really interested! If the maintenance intervals are more like a dirt bike, then it's weight will make it hard for it to compete with the European bikes.
We will see if they live up to the claims. From Honda: "Until now, you've always had to choose between performance and reliability. No longer—with the CRF450L, you get the best of both worlds. And "best" is a word you're going to hear a lot when you're talking about this bike."
Quote from: Nice Goat on May 23, 2018, 12:31:30 PM
I want a cool-looking Rally version.
I sense a DR650 for sale if this happens.
A couple of figures from another forum so they may not be correct but.......
Honda claims around 24 HP for this bike ???
And requires an oil change every 1000KM ::)
Yep, apparently from Honda's own Euro press release...
https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10
QuotePeak power is 18.4kW, with peak torque of 32Nm. Important from the hobby trail-rider's perspective is the engine's reliability and gap between service intervals. And this is where the CRF450L's build quality and design really stands out; it will go 32,000km between major strip downs, with an air filter oil and oil filter change every 1000km.
Nor sure if they're serious, or someone at Honda EU has a really good sarcastic sense of humor.
I normally do @ 500 mile oil changes on my dual sports (I get bored, and it's easy), but to claim that your product is so superiorly designed and built as to go @600 miles before requiring an oil change is pretty humorous. :D
it's five years early, but the sharks are already looking for the blood trail of a nicely modified kwb/glenn-motors-llc Honda
Quote from: KevinB on May 25, 2018, 12:34:01 PM
Yep, apparently from Honda's own Euro press release...
https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10
Nor sure if they're serious, or someone at Honda EU has a really good sarcastic sense of humor.
I normally do @ 500 mile oil changes on my dual sports (I get bored, and it's easy), but to claim that your product is so superiorly designed and built as to go @600 miles before requiring an oil change is pretty humorous. :D
Well it is based on a hi-strung motorcross engine...so there is that. After break-in I would feel safe stretching it out a bit but on the first 2 or so oil changes I would send some of the used oil out to be analyzed. Of course I would use the best oil in the world for the engine...Baby Seal oil. ;)
I do think this will be 1 cool Dualsport myself. After all moare power is just a few factory parts away. ;) ;)
If it's based on the 450R/X engine, it holds less than a quart. So 600 mile oil changes wouldnt be out in f the question.
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I keep waffling on this bike. There are things that impress me, but then again things that do not. I'm not going to plop down ~ $10,500 K for one so my interest is purely as a spectator.
I don't think the 24 odd HP seen in the link is accurate. The XR250 made 20 HP and the CRF250 made about 30 HP. I believe something in the 45 HP range for the 450 is actual.
Given the engine's design and pedigree, I am inclined to believe the 600 mile oil change and air filter change intervals are called for (by Honda). I guess that is part of the price of admission if one decides they want a CRF450L as their dualsport motorcycle. But that sure seems like it would be an issue for serious dualsport riding/trips. Not an issue for a weekender who wants to have one of the best dualsports available. But, if one is a serious dualsport rider, who takes extended trips, it would be pretty easy to find oneself in a position of having to service the bike, maybe even a few times, during an extended trip.
I think much of it is - for me - a distinct preference for simple/reliable "old school" dualsport when compared to something like the CRF450L. There is no doubt the CRF450L is "superior" in many ways, but if I was in the market for a new dualsport, I'd be looking at a new DR650 or XR650L. Both are air cooled, pretty much bullet proof bikes, somewhere in the range of $4k - $5K less than the CRF. Service intervals are substantially longer and both are capable of going pretty much anywhere in relative comfort and with a pretty high level of rider confidence that nothing is going to break or fail (at least as much confidence that ANY motorcycle is not going to fail).
Different strokes for different folks. It'd be a bit boring if everybody bought pretty much the same motorcycles.
I'm definitely interested in this bike, if it the only high maintenance is the oil. I just can't believe that hp spec is correct. I would just the use KLR for long trips, you don't have change the oil on it, just top it off every 600 miles.
Could this thing coerce Yamaha to fill in the dual sport gap between 250 and 1200? What is their deal....anybody have insight???
Quote from: kdtrull on June 01, 2018, 09:00:42 PM
Could this thing coerce Yamaha to fill in the dual sport gap between 250 and 1200? What is their deal....anybody have insight???
Man i hope so
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Honda was quoted in ADV pulse article stating the horsepower will be in the 40's. The 24hp rumor was a mistake by European Honda website.
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Quote from: catang5oh on June 21, 2018, 01:59:14 PM
Honda was quoted in ADV pulse article stating the horsepower will be in the 40's. The 24hp rumor was a mistake by European Honda website.
I'm hoping that the 30 hour oil changes might be a mistake also.
Quote from: Nice Goat on June 21, 2018, 08:14:05 PM
I'm hoping that the 30 hour oil changes might be a mistake also.
It takes 30 hours to change the oil? And people complain about KTMs being a pain in the ass.
;D
Seriously, I don't think this is gonna be a lightweight Adventure tourer we all hoped for. More an enduro bike with lights to connect the trails legaly.
Probably just like my husky, only holds a quart of oil.
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I can't wait to ride one of y'all's new crf450l's and see what it's all about.
I know a faired version would probably sell like mad, but would immediately be snickered at by the ktm guys with their extra 20hp or so, the BMW guys with their air conditioned seats, or the old codgers bitching about the price tag on their klrs.
somewhere a dude on a dr790 (dr650 bigbore) with nice suspension upgrades would cruise by and give a nod, then not give two yacks the rest of his trip.
I think there's still a media embargo on actual ride reports, but this video at least gives some close-ups of various details and components...
Honda will get a lot of mileage out of that clip. Should put the "low power" fear to bed.
Experienced Moto Vlogger Can't Handle
Honda's New "Big Red Panther"
(https://photos.smugmug.com/BigRedPanther/i-CPH5DPQ/0/fa6d6b9c/S/panther-S.png)
I called Cool Springs again for a price, and they wanted $11,800 out the door. They added $400 for assembly and doubled their normal doc fees. I've purchased two new bikes from them before without these added fees, so I told them that I won't be back.
If I do get one of these bikes, it'll be after the hoopla dies down.
Quote from: Nice Goat on September 14, 2018, 08:53:17 AM
I called Cool Springs again for a price, and they wanted $11,800 out the door. They added $400 for assembly and doubled their normal doc fees. I've purchased two new bikes from them before without these added fees, so I told them that I won't be back.
If I do get one of these bikes, it'll be after the hoopla dies down.
that's pretty heavy into ktm 500/690 territory, isn't it ?
seems like the logical come for a dr650 replacement, a lot more per, much improved suspension, all day long cruising and rip snorting tire shredding on demand.
are you opposed to the more mature ktms, or just really interested in testing out the Honda because it's brand spanking new? with your photographic skills and narrator coffee, great/home reviews should be right up to alley... if you ever wanted to get into that kind of thing. :-)
Quote from: kylepeterson on September 14, 2018, 09:02:46 AM
that's pretty heavy into ktm 500/690 territory, isn't it ?
seems like the logical come for a dr650 replacement, a lot more per, much improved suspension, all day long cruising and rip snorting tire shredding on demand.
are you opposed to the more mature ktms, or just really interested in testing out the Honda because it's brand spanking new? with your photographic skills and narrator coffee, great/home reviews should be right up to alley... if you ever wanted to get into that kind of thing. :-)
Yes, same price as KTM 500/690 and about $2k more than a brand new Beta 500...
What I really want is a 50-50 dual sport with 400-500cc engine, fuel injection, 3-4 gallon gas tank, long valve check intervals, and decent road manners for those days on the pavement. It looks like the Honda is not it. If it really is just a plated dirt race bike, that's great, but not really what I was hoping for.
What I want still does not exist, I am afraid. But I'll wait for the reviews to start on Monday, when Honda lifts their silly media ban.
Quote from: Nice Goat on September 14, 2018, 10:59:24 AM
Yes, same price as KTM 500/690 and about $2k more than a brand new Beta 500...
What I really want is a 50-50 dual sport with 400-500cc engine, fuel injection, 3-4 gallon gas tank, long valve check intervals, and decent road manners for those days on the pavement. It looks like the Honda is not it. If it really is just a plated dirt race bike, that's great, but not really what I was hoping for.
What I want still does not exist, I am afraid. But I'll wait for the reviews to start on Monday, when Honda lifts their silly media ban.
Dr790 might be what you need, with some emulators in the forks or something.
I saw, the video Wrangler Star made of the Honda.... He looped it out before the test ride started, I thought "up that's me on any given test ride"
Harley Adventure Bike!
Prefer something around 290-300 pounds.
The HD adventure Bike was more me kidding than anything. I bet the Honda has very long valve intervals.
Quote from: Nice Goat on September 14, 2018, 01:49:00 PM
Prefer something around 290-300 pounds.
Honda CRF 250L maybe? \/
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Africa%20Twin%20Ride%20Pictures/20180914_124748.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/owenwoolley/media/Africa%20Twin%20Ride%20Pictures/20180914_124748.jpg.html)
Last summer I was at Freedom and looked at the CRF250 Rally.
picking it up off the sidestand and then a DR650, there didn't seem to be much difference. A look at the specs shows the Honda at 345 lbs, the Suzuki at 365. 20 lbs and 400cc difference?
As much as I wanted to like the Rally, I couldn't see any advantage.
Too bad Honda didn't put a 450cc motor in it.
http://hondanews.com/releases/2018-honda-crf250l-rally-specifications
http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product%20Lines/Cycles/Products/DR650SE/2018/DR650S
The Honda is too heavy, too weak, no suspension adjustability, and not 400-500cc.
Quote from: norton73 on September 14, 2018, 03:28:13 PM
Last summer I was at Freedom and looked at the CRF250 Rally.
picking it up off the sidestand and then a DR650, there didn't seem to be much difference. A look at the specs shows the Honda at 345 lbs, the Suzuki at 365. 20 lbs and 400cc difference?
As much as I wanted to like the Rally, I couldn't see any advantage.
Too bad Honda didn't put a 450cc motor in it.
http://hondanews.com/releases/2018-honda-crf250l-rally-specifications
http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product%20Lines/Cycles/Products/DR650SE/2018/DR650S
Putting a 450 motor into would have raised the price quite a bit. They could have used the 300cc motor they use in their street bikes with little or no increase in cost or weight. It would have been a useful increase in performance.
I can't remember if it was on FB or ADV, but someone posted a close-up of the neck of the 450L frame and there were unexplained/unused bosses that look like they could be threaded...hinting at potential fairing mounting points of a future Rally version.
Quote from: KevinB on September 14, 2018, 05:26:42 PM
...hinting at potential fairing mounting points of a future Rally version.
That gives me hope!
Quote from: klaviator on September 14, 2018, 04:49:24 PM
Putting a 450 motor into would have raised the price quite a bit. They could have used the 300cc motor they use in their street bikes with little or no increase in cost or weight. It would have been a useful increase in performance.
The same guy that made the 351 kit in my KLX250s also offers a 305cc kit for the CRF250l.
http://bandbcyclerestoration.com/Page_1.html
Maybe if I stumble on a used Rally at a good price I might be tempted.
Quote from: norton73 on September 14, 2018, 05:58:07 PM
The same guy that made the 351 kit in my KLX250s ...
Does that 351 kit work in the new fuel-injected KLX?
Quote from: Nice Goat on September 14, 2018, 06:40:13 PM
Does that 351 kit work in the new fuel-injected KLX?
There's a thread over on AdvRider on the new gen bikes;
https://advrider.com/f/threads/klx-250-2018-next-gen.1266838/page-46
mechanically it's the same, but the FI is different than the bikes sold in other markets.
Apparently there are people experimenting, but i haven't seen anything definitive yet.
Reviews are now popping up all over the place.
From Jimmy Lewis:
This is not a bad motorcycle. In fact it is very good. But instead of having to read between the lines and guess what others are trying to tell you, here is the plain straight up fact. This CRF450L is not going to replace your KTM 500 EXC. It isn't in that category though many hoped it would be. The CRF450L is a modern day XR650L and here is why...
https://dirtbiketest.com/fresh-dirt/2019-honda-crf450l-first-riding-impression/#QpsL1oAFUdbPCFwQ.97 (https://dirtbiketest.com/fresh-dirt/2019-honda-crf450l-first-riding-impression/#QpsL1oAFUdbPCFwQ.97)
Review from ADV Pulse:
http://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/2019-honda-crf450l-review/ (http://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/2019-honda-crf450l-review/)
Revzilla's review:
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2019-honda-crf450l-first-ride-motorcycle-review (https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2019-honda-crf450l-first-ride-motorcycle-review)
Interesting /\. Wanna drop weight, add some power? Sounds like it is a familiar way is there to take. Drop the stock exhaust for a lighter, free flowing aftermarket one, free up the intake, then add a programmable ecu. ;)
Quote from: springer on September 17, 2018, 02:33:13 PM
Interesting /\. Wanna drop weight, add some power? Sounds like it is a familiar way is there to take. Drop the stock exhaust for a lighter, free flowing aftermarket one, free up the intake, then add a programmable ecu. ;)
But since it's going for the $$ that an Austrian bike goes for, and the service intervals are about the same...you can actually save money by getting a KTM/Husky!!! I'm sure will many will buy it for Honda reliability, but I don't see it being as successful as they were hoping for. I get that they have to deal with more emission standards, but I think they kind of missed the mark a bit. The increased weight, and detuned power(compared to KTM) would be acceptable to me if it had longer service intervals. Or if the price was lower, it could steal all of the DRZ business. But it doesn't fit any of those niches. This is just my opinion of course.
A lot of people don't need or want KTM power. If you ride this bike like a dual sport and not like a race bike, you'll probably never need the valves changed.
True, but this is just me...if I was going to be paying over $10k I would hope it would edge out the Austrians in at least one category. I guess a perceived value thing. If I'm not wanting the KTM power it'd be hard not to go with a DRZ, farkle the hell out of it, and still save $$. If Honda had come in around the $8k mark, I'd say they hit a homerun.
The reviews are all positive. Almost no negative comments from what I've seen. That's good.
The biggest negative is the price. Even with all of the good I personally believe it should be selling for $1,000 less OTD compared to a KTM 500EXC-F and it still might after the new wears off and Honda starts doing some dealer incentives.
A few things must be confirmed before I would consider buying one.
- A 4 gallon tank must be available. IMS is currently working a 3 gallon
- A way to modify the ECU be it piggy back, replacement or jailbreak it must be available
- Seat Concepts must be available.
If just those 3 things happen I predict that it will do well in spite of the short oil change and valve adjustment intervals. Mainly because people will do some testing and realize that those numbers are for race use and can be extended for average dualsport use. One of the ride leaders during the event stated that he currently owns a 2016 KTM 500 and the 450L feels lighter on the trail. That's a huge endorsement. Granted the 500 doesn't feel very light compared to a modern 2-stroke but it's what this bike will be compared to in almost every category. It will win every category against the KTM 500 that involves comfort and ADV use, maybe not by much but it will beat it. The categories that it loses to KTM 500 will only be about outright performance but that too will not be by much. That is why I think it will succeed. Once it's out on the market and people realize that it's a quality comfortable bike that can handle long distance multi-day dualsport touring. It will be fully accepted as the dirtiest of the street-ish bikes.
If I'm not careful I'm going to talk myself into buying one. Oh wait, it's $10,729 plus tax, tag, title and dealer market adjustment. So never mind, I'll be waiting for them to come to their senses and then buy on the used market.
Quote from: gulfcoaster on September 17, 2018, 05:54:35 PM
True, but this is just me...if I was going to be paying over $10k I would hope it would edge out the Austrians in at least one category. I guess a perceived value thing. If I'm not wanting the KTM power it'd be hard not to go with a DRZ, farkle the hell out of it, and still save $$. If Honda had come in around the $8k mark, I'd say they hit a homerun.
The Honda has the best and only 180 degree bendable blinkers on the market.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/37/de/6f/37de6fcdeff97b60c1055e5740513f1b.jpg)
Quote from: Mulley on September 17, 2018, 06:18:29 PM
If I'm not careful I'm going to talk myself into buying one. Oh wait, it's $10,729 plus tax, tag, title and dealer market adjustment. So never mind, I'll be waiting for them to come to their senses and then buy on the used market.
Yep. In 2-3 years when people are saying they're going closer to 1k before needing an oil change, and the valves are good for longer, I will be hunting a used one for hopefully $7500. By then there will be more accessories and I can easily turn it into the lightweight ADV bike that I want, or think I need. Of course by then, what I want will probably have changed at least 5 times.
I have the inside price! I might could be persuaded if the reviews stay strong.
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From the Revzilla article:
"One final thing that is going to set this bike apart from the competition is the fact that it comes standard with a one-year factory warranty and the option of adding five years on top of that for a total of six years of protection... unlimited miles... on a dirt bike. And what does the warranty cover? Well, it's easier to tell you what it excludes: tires, batteries, accessories and expendable maintenance items, such as spark plugs, filters, and lubricants."
Maybe this is a hint as to how reliable it will be.
So the ajp pr7 just got more desirable ?
Is that on your list Glenn?
Quote from: kylepeterson on September 18, 2018, 07:30:04 PM
So the ajp pr7 just got more desirable ?
Is that on your list Glenn?
Not considering AJP ... don't know what I'll end up with ... may just get a 250