So why WOULD you want to get rid of those tubes that live inside of you tire and spoke rim? Because when you get a flat, it is the tube you got to fix. That means taking off the tire to get to the tube to patch it. What a hassle that can be, get the front or back in the air, remove the wheel, then remove the tire, and fix the tube. Yea, sometimes, some folks, can do all that with out taking the wheel off...sometimes, but still it is a hassle.
I would much rather just plug it and go. ;)
Here is a fella that shows you how simple it can be...most of the time to just plug it and go;
That sure looks easier than doing all that other stuff to fix a tube. But since my main go to bike is the Africa Twin my options are some what limited. Spoke wheels with NO tubes means that my options are;
1. Have Wood's Wheel Works build me a set of tubeless spoke rims, but that can be expensive...about $2.5k expensive.
2. Buy a Outex kit for about for around $117.00 for the front and rear rim;
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CRF1000L-Africa-Twin-Spoke-Wheel-Tubeless-Kit-21-2-15-18-4-00-MT-FR21214-/291698243582
That /\ is the way I went. Of course after buying that kit I got told of a little bit cheaper option by some Supermoto members here, but que sera sera...or so it goes. :D
Here is how they do it, some guys also use some kind of super tape, this video shows both;
So anyway, got started on it today. First step is of course getting the old tire off the rim. Use a set of Motion Pro Bead Breaker tire irons to break the bead and remove the old tire.
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180829_104408.jpg)
(BTW, BEST set of Tire irons money can buy. They are short, but provide plenty of leverage plus breaking the bead is VERY fast and since they are made out of Aluminum, they are light. A must for any motorcyclist in my humble opinion. :D )
So once the tire is off, it is time to clean...and I do mean clean, the inside of the rim. I used acetone because nothing cleans metal like acetone. It removes stuck on gunk quickly, dries fast, and leaves no residue.
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180830_115102.jpg)
In the Outex kit are some little round sticky things. They go on the spoke nipples;
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180830_130559.jpg)
I just peeled them off the roll and applied them to the nipple. I then used a #2 pencil eraser to stick them good to the nipple face. I then used a dental pick floss thingy. The pick end is plastic and flexible. Perfect for getting the round sticky things to fit around and stick to the nipple head. ;)
Next up is the double sided sticky tape...and man, is that stuff sticky. It goes around the rim into the channel where the spoke nipples are. You cut the sticky tape so the end piece fits flush with the other end. No need to overlap. Start about 2 nipples away from the schrader valve hole. (schrader valve, that is the thingy you use to put air into the tire. ;) 2 new schrader valves are included in the kit) Picture \/
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180830_140924.jpg)
Now remove the green backing from the double side sticky tape. Now apply the white(ish) clear tape, butting the ends up like the sticky tape but go about 1 nipple down (So the splice of the 2 tapes do not line up with each other). Cut the hole in the rim for the schrader valve out with an X-Acto knife with a long sharp point. (Not included in the kit) I also used the pencil eraser to make sure everything was stuck down as good as I could. ;)
Now mount your new tire to the rim and air up.
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180830_161405.jpg)
I aired the tire to 40 psi. It will set over night and if I did everything right, ::) I should read 40 psi in the morning.
If I do, then the back rim will get done tomorrow. ;)
If I didn't, you will hear me cussing from Mobile to Huntsville. :D
Ooops, Video, first one is with the spoke nipple covering;
This one is of that super sticky double sided tape;
I did this Outex procedure on Moto rims for my Beta, that first night they may drop just a tiny amount of PSI as the pressure forces the tape down into every tiny crack and cranny. Think I lost maybe 3-5psi? Wasn't much. I did it while they were still brand new so at least I got to skip the cleaning part, which I can imagine could be some work depending on the age of a wheel.
Then after that first night you should be good!
That system takes patience but mine is getting close to one year and it has worked perfectly!
I also use Ride On in those wheels as a balancer and for potentially a little extra protection against picking up road trash. Lot of opinions in that area, but I've been a fan of Ride On at least for balancing for a while and doesn't really make much of a mess at all like some others do when time for a tire change.
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Great write up
@springer !
Quote from: bblass on August 31, 2018, 08:29:09 AM
Great write up @springer !
Thank you sir!
Front is done!
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180831_120748.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/owenwoolley/media/Outex/20180831_120748.jpg.html)
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180831_120752.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/owenwoolley/media/Outex/20180831_120752.jpg.html)
BTW, the front lost just 3-4 pds over night;
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180831_093645.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/owenwoolley/media/Outex/20180831_093645.jpg.html)
So it should be good to go.
Now for the back rim...and a new tire too. Can't let the back get jealous of the new tire ya know. ;)
Very nicely done!
That is a beautiful bike. I love those colors.
Quote from: springer on August 31, 2018, 12:18:54 PM
Thank you sir!
Front is done!
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180831_120748.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/owenwoolley/media/Outex/20180831_120748.jpg.html)
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180831_120752.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/owenwoolley/media/Outex/20180831_120752.jpg.html)
BTW, the front lost just 3-4 pds over night;
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180831_093645.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/owenwoolley/media/Outex/20180831_093645.jpg.html)
So it should be good to go.
Now for the back rim...and a new tire too. Can't let the back get jealous of the new tire ya know. ;)
I'll bet you enjoyed how easy it is to mount a tire once converted to tubeless! I smear a little shindy's bead wax on the lip, it spoons on the final stages nice and easy (even thick sidewalk ones), and just fill her up til the bead pops on good and tight.
Now if only I could get my rear tubliss dirt tire to seal as well ... it loses about 1 psi every 4-6hrs on the low pressure side, slower once it drops beneath 10psi. Just tiny tiny leaks seem to be all around the tire bead/rim itself. I slathered SLIME on at install too. Next tire change I'll really try to figure out why, for now I just add a little air whenever I need to.
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Well, after my walk this morning;
I thought it is just to pretty to turn a wrench so I went mountain bike riding at Tannehill state park. Got home about 12:30 and ate lunch, then jumped into it. ;)
Came home around 12:30, ate lunch, then started in on the rear tire. Got the wheel off;
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180831_145742.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/owenwoolley/media/Outex/20180831_145742.jpg.html)
Then the tire off. Cleaned the rim for the 1st time;
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180831_160752_1.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/owenwoolley/media/Outex/20180831_160752_1.jpg.html)
and now taking another break. :D
Okay, got the little nipple covers on, put the sticky as hell tape on, and then put the cleat non sticky plastic tape cover stuff on. (How can a roll of plastic with no sticky stuff be called tape? I have no idea, but that is what Out-ex calls it. ::) )
Letting the tire warm up in the sun as I have a coke and a smile.
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180901_144238.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/owenwoolley/media/Outex/20180901_144238.jpg.html)
I love the way tires feel at 13-15psi without tubes. The problem with this on dirt wheels is that fine sand and dirt make their way into around the bead and eventually start leaks. I ran it for a month or so without issues but after a few days in really dry/powdery conditions, they leaked. I would carry a 21" as a backup if you plan to do any long distance dual sport riding.
I'm back to tubes for now, but watching for your experiences with the tape method.
Quote from: kylepeterson on September 01, 2018, 05:02:50 PM
I love the way tires feel at 13-15psi without tubes. The problem with this on dirt wheels is that fine sand and dirt make their way into around the bead and eventually start leaks. I ran it for a month or so without issues but after a few days in really dry/powdery conditions, they leaked. I would carry a 21" as a backup if you plan to do any long distance dual sport riding.
I'm back to tubes for now, but watching for your experiences with the tape method.
Well hold on...the rear is leaking around 2 spokes...so everything is not so good. So tomorrow off comes the tire, then I will have to take a look see. I bought some "3M Marine Adhesive Sealant Fast Cure 5200". Some guys on Youtube say that is all they use for this. Apply all around the spoke nipple and on top, let cure for 24 hours, and reassemble...sill got a bit of the sticky tape and plastic tape from the Outex kit, so that might be used too.
Today was a bummer... :-[
Hate to hear that, gotta be frustrating.
The last pic makes it look like you could have a few spots that need to be pushed down a little more, so hopefully that is all it is. Take something strong and smooth (like the handle of a butter knife, paintbrush, etc) and see if you can work that tape down a little better. I used something along those lines and put a piece of cloth (or some smooth/strong fabric) around the end so it slides around easily on the tape backside, and worked it down and into place good on mine. Maybe that's all it needs, but it is nice they send you a little more tape than you need in case you need to slice and redo a small section.
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Quote from: springer on September 01, 2018, 07:53:47 PM
Well hold on...the rear is leaking around 2 spokes...so everything is not so good. So tomorrow off comes the tire, then I will have to take a look see. I bought some "3M Marine Adhesive Sealant Fast Cure 5200". Some guys on Youtube say that is all they use for this. Apply all around the spoke nipple and on top, let cure for 24 hours, and reassemble...sill got a bit of the sticky tape and plastic tape from the Outex kit, so that might be used too.
Today was a bummer... :-[
That's good news actually... I never saw any leakage at the spoke nipples, it was always at the bead between the tire and rim. I'd say you're good after you too off the leaking tape, clean it and try again. You really want to use a roller of some kind to get the tape into the wheel good. If you pump it up higher to around 50-60 it will put more pressure against the tape and help form it against the nipples.
I think I saw about 1psi per week, until the Dusty racing Arif, then it would loose 10 in an evening. If I ever figure out how to seal the rim/bead with some kind of sealant I'll do it again. Loved the way tires felt without tubes.
Quote from: kylepeterson on September 02, 2018, 09:27:18 AM
That's good news actually... I never saw any leakage at the spoke nipples, it was always at the bead between the tire and rim. I'd say you're good after you too off the leaking tape, clean it and try again. You really want to use a roller of some kind to get the tape into the wheel good. If you pump it up higher to around 50-60 it will put more pressure against the tape and help form it against the nipples.
I think I saw about 1psi per week, until the Dusty racing Arif, then it would loose 10 in an evening. If I ever figure out how to seal the rim/bead with some kind of sealant I'll do it again. Loved the way tires felt without tubes.
Yea, it was blowing out bad around 3 of them. 2 right together and the 3rd one about a spoke set down. (2 spokes down)
Moar bad news, checked the front and over night it went from 50 psi to 30 psi. :( It help good the first night but not last night. :o
I have taken off around a 3rd of the Outex stuff from the rim;
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180902_145504.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/owenwoolley/media/Outex/20180902_145504.jpg.html)
I am planning on doing something similar to what this guys does;
I have already got the sealant he showed;
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180902_151621.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/owenwoolley/media/Outex/20180902_151621.jpg.html)
But he did not say what tape he used. (brand) :( He did say impenetrable by air...or something like that. Packing tape maybe?)
Any advice?
I've read several times around folks using 3M Extreme Sealing tape to convert to tubeless. It is similar to what Outex uses but a single application rather than the two layer setup from Outex. I almost went this route instead of Outex. Maybe it combined with your adhesive is the trick. That Outex stuff is very sticky, can only imagine the chore it must be to get it back off.
3M 4412N Sealant Tape (1 Roll) - Translucent, Pressure Sensitive Acrylic Adhesive Tape. Sealants and Adhesive https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007Y7CLHM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_dVeJBbK18F20Q
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Quote from: Cahaba on September 02, 2018, 03:49:06 PM
I've read several times around folks using 3M Extreme Sealing tape to convert to tubeless. It is similar to what Outex uses but a single application rather than the two layer setup from Outex. I almost went this route instead of Outex. Maybe it combined with your adhesive is the trick. That Outex stuff is very sticky, can only imagine the chore it must be to get it back off.
3M 4412N Sealant Tape (1 Roll) - Translucent, Pressure Sensitive Acrylic Adhesive Tape. Sealants and Adhesive https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007Y7CLHM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_dVeJBbK18F20Q
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Yep, that is what the guy in the video used. He said use a tape the is not air permeable. (Air will not pass through) Couldn't find the 3M tape anywhere in the Birmingham area so I got Gorilla Crystal Clear Fix, Patch, Seal tape.
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180902_183055.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/owenwoolley/media/Outex/20180902_183055.jpg.html)
Going to do 2 wraps of it.
Quote from: Cahaba on September 02, 2018, 03:49:06 PM
I've read several times around folks using 3M Extreme Sealing tape to convert to tubeless. It is similar to what Outex uses but a single application rather than the two layer setup from Outex. I almost went this route instead of Outex. Maybe it combined with your adhesive is the trick. That Outex stuff is very sticky, can only imagine the chore it must be to get it back off.
3M 4412N Sealant Tape (1 Roll) - Translucent, Pressure Sensitive Acrylic Adhesive Tape. Sealants and Adhesive https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007Y7CLHM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_dVeJBbK18F20Q
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That's what I used. It's more like a very thick/strong gel/foam kind of stuff with an even stronger/stickier adhesive. It will fill voids and stick to everything. Amazon had rolls of it for about 3$ per meter so I bought five. It is seriously sticky/good stuff. I wrapped over the 3m tape with some gorilla duct tape to protect it from tire changes, but I don't think it needs it at all.
The outix tape is good stuff, which ever you use just make sure it's completely free of oils/resins/guess before application. Like all adhesives, they only stick to clean surfaces.
I used this stuff at work to address a helium gas leak in a compression fitting I messed up. It worked.
If it will stop helium, then it should do fine with atmospheric air.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Nashua-Tape-1-in-x-3-33-yd-Stretch-and-Seal-Self-Fusing-Silicone-Tape-in-Black-1208952/100206050
Just did the about 1/3 section of the rim but I did cover the whole wheel in 2 wraps of the Gorilla tape.
I will drink a cup of coffee, then get my morning walk on, and finally get the rear tire back on.
Quote from: Brian A on September 03, 2018, 06:24:48 AM
I used this stuff at work to address a helium gas leak in a compression fitting I messed up. It worked.
If it will stop helium, then it should do fine with atmospheric air.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Nashua-Tape-1-in-x-3-33-yd-Stretch-and-Seal-Self-Fusing-Silicone-Tape-in-Black-1208952/100206050
Very cool find. Look, they come in colored too !
Quote from: Brian A on September 03, 2018, 06:24:48 AM
I used this stuff at work to address a helium gas leak in a compression fitting I messed up. It worked.
If it will stop helium, then it should do fine with atmospheric air.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Nashua-Tape-1-in-x-3-33-yd-Stretch-and-Seal-Self-Fusing-Silicone-Tape-in-Black-1208952/100206050
Yea but it is not atmospheric air in a tire. It is air under pressure.
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Atmospheric+air+pressure
Quote from: springer on September 03, 2018, 06:28:29 PM
Yea but it is not atmospheric air in a tire. It is air under pressure.
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Atmospheric+air+pressure
Maybe he had been talkin' 'bout covalent radius 'n what-not???
My sumo wheels were done with silicone and that 3M tape! Never have noticed any air leaks but the tape has come undone at the ends!
Kind of acts like dynamic balancing!!
Quote from: springer on September 03, 2018, 06:28:29 PM
Yea but it is not atmospheric air in a tire. It is air under pressure.
Since he said atmospheric "air" instead of "pressure", I took it to mean that he figured if it could stand up to Helium, it should do fine with the plain 'ole breathing kind of air - i.e., the air in the atmosphere around the pump that gets sucked in, compressed, then hosed into the tire.
Quote from: kdtrull on September 04, 2018, 02:17:20 PM
Maybe he had been talkin' 'bout covalent radius 'n what-not???
Y'all stop trying to confuse folks with your talk about molecule sizes.
"Oh, mine's bigger!"
:D
Quote from: Nice Goat on September 04, 2018, 05:08:19 PM
Y'all stop trying to confuse folks with your talk about molecule sizes.
"Oh, mine's bigger!"
:D
Well, now that you mention it:
I got your 28 picometers right here, Jack! ;D
Quote from: KevinB on September 04, 2018, 04:34:05 PM
Since he said atmospheric "air" instead of "pressure", I took it to mean that he figured if it could stand up to Helium, it should do fine with the plain 'ole breathing kind of air - i.e., the air in the atmosphere around the pump that gets sucked in, compressed, then hosed into the tire.
You'd be correct. Atmospheric air is pretty much like comparing a bowling ball to a BB when considering the size of the helium molecule.
If the silicone tape got me out of a pickle with helium gas, then it should be more than good enough for atmospheric air (70% Nitrogen. 21% Oxygen.)
Especially considering the air pressure in the tire would be pushing the tape into the rim thereby making the pressure work to your advantage.
Thanks for the laughs /\ :D Man I needed that. Okay, this is what I did;
Clean the hole the nipple goes in with acetone.
Put a bead of that super duty, handy dandy Marine stick'em caulk stuff around the hole the spoke nipple goes in;
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180904_164355.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/owenwoolley/media/Outex/20180904_164355.jpg.html)
Put the clean, as in cleaned with acetone, nipple washer on the bead of caulk;
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180904_164410.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/owenwoolley/media/Outex/20180904_164410.jpg.html)
Ran some more caulk around the nipple washer;
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180904_164444.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/owenwoolley/media/Outex/20180904_164444.jpg.html)
Now you see the hole in the nipple?
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180904_164521.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/owenwoolley/media/Outex/20180904_164521.jpg.html)
That is where most of the air was leaking through. So I filled that threaded part with caulk and placed it through the washer buried in caulk.
Nipple is filled with caulk from this end;
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180904_170057.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/owenwoolley/media/Outex/20180904_170057.jpg.html)
Till I could see caulk on the other end;
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180904_170040.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/owenwoolley/media/Outex/20180904_170040.jpg.html)
then placed through the washer in the caulk;
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180904_164603.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/owenwoolley/media/Outex/20180904_164603.jpg.html)
I used a phillips head screw driver to get the nipple started on the spoke and screwed it down until snug. Then tightened down with a spoke wrench.
I then ran some more caulk on the top so it was buried in chalk.
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180904_165025.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/owenwoolley/media/Outex/20180904_165025.jpg.html)
Repeat until all are done.
I then ran that Gorilla super duty tape over the inside of the rim making sure to press it down to the rim. Rubbing all air bubbles out.
Tomorrow after I get out from the doctor's office I might put the tire on. More than likely I will just let it set-up for another day.
Well, you've convinced me to never ever try this mod.
You know if you divide the molecular weight of helium in half seven times, statistically it isn't even there! .
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Just sayin!
Gustav was at the beach looking for a lay.
there's this girl, in a bikini, on a bicycle.
there's this girl on a bicycle, in a bikini.
there's this girl on a bikini, in a bicycle.
then my buddy Gustav threw the basketball to her.
the first one was so perfect that men (and women) will stare and agree almost without realizing "that's hot".
then the second third and fourth versions got progressively worse until it reached the zero possibility of anything good happening this weekend, with that girl, for Gustav.
it's not his fault, he just needs to try again.
be Gustav.
try again.
if you're about to type "hey that's not a basket ball"
stop. you've just proved how hot the first scenario is by zooming in on it. see, that's an example of looking to hard instead of just trying again.
Quote from: springer on September 02, 2018, 03:27:44 PM
Yea, it was blowing out bad around 3 of them. 2 right together and the 3rd one about a spoke set down. (2 spokes down)
Moar bad news, checked the front and over night it went from 50 psi to 30 psi. :( It help good the first night but not last night. :o
I have taken off around a 3rd of the Outex stuff from the rim;
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180902_145504.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/owenwoolley/media/Outex/20180902_145504.jpg.html)
I am planning on doing something similar to what this guys does;
I have already got the sealant he showed;
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee446/owenwoolley/Outex/20180902_151621.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/owenwoolley/media/Outex/20180902_151621.jpg.html)
But he did not say what tape he used. (brand) :( He did say impenetrable by air...or something like that. Packing tape maybe?)
Any advice?
I think you just had a bad attempt. if the spoke nipples were the issue all of them should have leaked... which means they weren't the issue. the issue was the tape, because air made its way under the tape to the spoke nipples.
Any updates ?
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Quote from: merc16 on November 25, 2018, 04:50:11 PM
Any updates ?
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Still using tubes for now to bed and seal everything up. Next tire change the tires will be of a tubless type and we shall see.
Cool, looking forward to a positive outcome !
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My sumo setup held solid throughout the track day!
The silicone and tape makes it a bit harder to balance though!
@springer (Info / suggestions from other Outex users invited also)
Any updates on your tubeless efforts? I'm mulling over the idea of trying to go tubeless on my A/T and sumo.
On your initial attempt, I noticed you didn't grind down the spoke nipples like they did in one of the Outex installation videos...do you think that hindered the tape sealing?
Also, any ideas on sealing up a rim-lock hole prior to tape application?
I have always had luck using fast cure 5200 on spoke nipples then using sealing tape (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190226/22b3b3ac4c30629c1cad81a9b4a70b69.jpg)
it worked on two harleys and a xl 175 street and trail Going to use this on the klr next tire change . guess if had read the thread before I responded I would have seen the sealant has already been mentioned,
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Quote from: KevinB on February 25, 2019, 07:12:11 PM
@springer
(Info / suggestions from other Outex users invited also)
Any updates on your tubeless efforts? I'm mulling over the idea of trying to go tubeless on my A/T and sumo.
On your initial attempt, I noticed you didn't grind down the spoke nipples like they did in one of the Outex installation videos...do you think that hindered the tape sealing?
Also, any ideas on sealing up a rim-lock hole prior to tape application?
I haven't had to do a tire change since I put the tires on. I did use the fast-cure 5200 on the spoke nipples, all around the nipple and into the treads of the nipple. Did them 1 by 1 by unscrewing the nipple 4 turns, put the 5200 up into the nipple, and around the nipple then tighten back 4 turns, check the rim for run-out, then put the old tube in, and mounted the tire. I did it that way so the pressure and heat from the tube will seal everything back up.
My "problem" has been with the MEFO Super Explorers...they are wearing like iron. Over 4k mile on them and not even 1/2 way worn down. I'm thinking my next tire change will be in the spring. So when that happens I will replace the tires and leave the tube out. If I cann't hear an air leak, I will let it sit over night and the next day check the air pressure. If there is no drop, then put the tire and rim on the bike, then repeat the tire change for the front checking the front tire for pressure drop the next day.
Right now, when I go into the dirt stuff, I only drop my pressure to 20-24ish pounds. The pig is so friggen big for a dirty bike that to be honest, I am leery of going lower. last thing I want is bending a rim some where, way out there cause most of the time, I am alone.