Not long after purchasing my first sportbike back in 1994, a '94 Honda CBR600F2, I came to the realization that owning one of these things is an exercise in frustration. They are built to run, but the public roads are filled with so many "barriers" that they can never be enjoyed anywhere close to their capability. I found that only in the earliest hours of a Summer Sunday morning could I can any real measure of what I considered "fun" on it and even then, the prospect of an expensive encounter with law enforcement (as best possible danger) forever rode with me. Since that time, every manufacturer had "hardened" their sportbikes to the point that they are designed far more for the track than the road and only reinforced my long held opinion that the only place to truly and intelligently operate these things as they are meant to be used is on a track, either a trackday or to just go "all in" and join a race organization like CCS or WERA.
As you may know, I recently acquired a 1995 Honda VFR750. Anyone familiar with the genre knows that these are outstanding road going sportbikes but not nearly "laser focused" enough to considered as a realistic candidate for a serious race bike. That fact in evidence, it is still way too much bike for the public roads. Having a conversation with my mechanic the other day, I said that I feel I may have made a mistake getting another sportbike, that even though I knew this bike was an easy ticket just waiting to happen, I find myself riding in a manner that I would advise anyone else I saw doing it to curtail. His suggestion that i "Just don't ride it like that" was met with an honest "This bike just wants to run. It works so well that it invites this behavior all too easily".
Between the time when I purchased the bike in late June and completing the resurrection project and putting it on the road in mid September, I had decided that in 2016 I would do as many Sportbike Track Time track days as I could afford, basically reasoning that the fee would be considerably less than the ticket I would surely get if I were to ride as I used to "back in the day". Heck, before the work even began to bring it back to life I had purchased a one-piece suit off the WERA classifieds and arranged a deal for the helmet, gloves, and boots to complete my track gear.
I would be interested to hear the ideas some of you have about your own sportbike ownership and how you feel about its capabilities versus the public environment we ask them to exist in and if you made the transition to full "off-road" use or maybe the split use choice.
Paging lostinbama and ColeX2....
Frankly, I'm glad my bike is just a 500cc standard. I don't see how you can make yourself ride within the legal limits on a bike that will fly.
Lots of people have sold/traded fast bikes to keep out of trouble. I think this is a good topic for discussion.
Been there done that.
Rode stupid fast - 99% of the time in Tennessee and North Carolina.
Had my epiphany one day. Came home and sold the sportbike and race leathers.
The Versys is plenty fast and capable of delivering all the fun I could ask for on the road and is good for trips too. And while it is more than enough to get me in trouble with the law, it doesn't beg to be ridden like a sportbike in order to be fun.
I hated riding a sportbike around town or just cruising along the highway or interstate. It was a waste in my book. Sort of like having a new 4K HD flat screen TV and all you have to watch is a bunch of VCR tapes on old VCR player. What's the use?
Off road (for me - since I can't justify a track bike and a few track days each year) is where I can turn the wick up as high as desired and no risk of adverse legal ramifications.
Other potentially adverse ramifications remain present.
I can remember a few years back where there would be rides posted up in the Planned Rides section that specifically stated This will be a "spirited pace" ride and that only people in full leathers gear were invited. I notice that sort of event hasn't been posted in quite some time, seemingly gone extinct when the cohort that participated found track days.
Then there is also an "attitude" that permeates sportbike ownership, a kind of "measuring" of where you are in relation to others. I know I used to check the peg lean posts on bikes, as well as the "chicken strips", as if grinding the indicators down or getting that last millimeter of tread width scrubbed was some kind of prize winning "accomplishment" for a public road dwelling bike and rider. Heck, I was arrogant, (and stupid) enough to imagine an Ulster or Isle of Mann vibe to a ride and that being faster on public roads was actually something to brag about.
Quote from: DachshundUberAlles on October 14, 2015, 01:02:02 PM
I can remember a few years back where there would be rides posted up in the Planned Rides section that specifically stated This will be a "spirited pace" ride and that only people in full leathers gear were invited. I notice that sort of event hasn't been posted in quite some time, seemingly gone extinct when the cohort that participated found track days.
Then there is also an "attitude" that permeates sportbike ownership, a kind of "measuring" of where you are in relation to others. I know I used to check the peg lean posts on bikes, as well as the "chicken strips", as if grinding the indicators down or getting that last millimeter of tread width scrubbed was some kind of prize winning "accomplishment" for a public road dwelling bike and rider. Heck, I was arrogant, (and stupid) enough to imagine an Ulster or Isle of Mann vibe to a ride and that being faster on public roads was actually something to brag about.
Not necessarily true, you are emphasizing the stereotype. Not all sport bike riders have that attitude. ???
Quote from: DachshundUberAlles on October 14, 2015, 01:02:02 PM
I can remember a few years back where there would be rides posted up in the Planned Rides section that specifically stated This will be a "spirited pace" ride and that only people in full leathers gear were invited. I notice that sort of event hasn't been posted in quite some time, seemingly gone extinct when the cohort that participated found track days.
PM's are a wonderful thing...........................
Quote from: Shepcam on October 14, 2015, 01:34:56 PMNot necessarily true, you are emphasizing the stereotype. Not all sport bike riders have that attitude. ???
Yes, I am.
I guess that I am still such a newb that I find delight in a fast corner on road X, a chicane on road Y, or a somewhat fast sweeper on HWY interchange A to B. I also like to goose the throttle for a few seconds every now and again and feel the torque / hp. I will also do a few track days per year though I am under no illusion that I am remotely good. I just have fun and would like to stay in that frame of mind. If it changes, I'll change. For now, it's all good...
I love that Viffer btw. I thought of buying one (the 800) a couple years ago.
Great bikes!!
Just about all bikes are "too fast". I rode home today from Gulf Shores on a 1000 lb. Harley, 2-up.. 90% of the time I was in the red zone where I could have received a fast driving award. I know it's not capable of the kind of speeds you are talking about, but it can still get me in trouble.
I think it's not the bike so much as it's the fact that most of us are 25 year olds in 50+ years old bodies. We can afford the fast bikes, but also have more at stake if caught.
Quote from: jrobinson on October 14, 2015, 06:34:16 PM
I think it's not the bike so much as it's the fact that most of us are 25 year olds in 50+ years old bodies. We can afford the fast bikes, but also have more at stake if caught.
This /\
Quote from: hmoore on October 14, 2015, 06:05:46 PM
I guess that I am still such a newb that I find delight in a fast corner on road X, a chicane on road Y, or a somewhat fast sweeper on HWY interchange A to B. I also like to goose the throttle for a few seconds every now and again and feel the torque / hp. I will also do a few track days per year though I am under no illusion that I am remotely good. I just have fun and would like to stay in that frame of mind. If it changes, I'll change. For now, it's all good...
It's not the odd "goosing for a few seconds", everybody does that on every genre of bike there is. It's the tendency to go out with "need for speed" as the sole function of the ride, to the point of cursing any car that happens to be in front of you when you reach the "prime portion" of the road, the next 10 miles are double yellow lined and you know you're going to pass anyway at the first opportunity and the only thing you even give a nanosecond of thought about it is that it would suck to see a cop.
I get the 25 year old in the 50+ body, though it's not how it goes with me. I am the 52 year old who has 40 years of "life behind (handle) bars" and is comfortable with what a motorcycle does under me and the more capable that motorcycle is, the more willing I am to let it do its thing. I guess the whole point of this talking is to try and come to terms with knowing that I am my own worst enemy in this. Meh, whatever. I guess I need to get rest of the funds to get my trailer to haul the bike to Leeds and Mumford next year.
You didn't think we were going to talk you out of going fast, did you?? :)
Quote from: jrobinson on October 14, 2015, 06:34:16 PM(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/14/ffadd29e8976e38b3eab4c5844d03be9.jpg)
I think it's not the bike so much as it's the fact that most of us are 25 year olds in 50+ years old bodies. We can afford the fast bikes, but also have more at stake if caught.
Quote from: springer on October 14, 2015, 02:38:47 PMPM's are a wonderful thing...........................
Feel free to expand on this.
Quote from: DachshundUberAlles on October 15, 2015, 08:05:00 AM
Quote from: springer on October 14, 2015, 02:38:47 PMPM's are a wonderful thing...........................
Feel free to expand on this.
He means that there are private rides, not posted to the forum. Not everybody wants to ride with me 8)
There are two thing I often wonder:
One: Am I too fast?
Two: Am I too good looking?
(http://advrider.com/styles/advrider_smilies/ImaPoser.gif)
Seriously. I was a pretty hard core sport rider from the mid 80s till around 2000. Going fast on curvy roads was what riding was all about for me. Then I got sidetracked by other things. I got into dual sport and dirt riding. More recently I got into scooters. And of course I kept getting older. At this point in my life I realize the dangers of riding fast and I no longer have as much desire to go fast.
However, that desire, although diminished, is not gone. I still enjoy running through the curves at a "fun" pace. One thing I have found is that for me, I'd rather ride fast on a slow bike than slow on a fast bike. I have run my 150cc scooter through Deal's gap and had fun. My 250cc scooter was even more fun because it has better cornering clearance. Would I have had more fun on an open class sportbike? Maybe on the track but not on most public roads. I just don't need a super fast bike to go as fast as I am capable of riding on public roads. On top of that, I'm just not comfortable on a crouched over sportbike.
How about those guys who ride hard core sportbikes on the street? If they are having fun then more power to them. I was once young and I have not forgotten what it was like. Then again, there are some pretty old guys who still ride sportbikes. I have a friend who is 75 who rides a GSXR750 on the track.
Anyway, good topic for discussion. I think that anyone who like to ride fast wrestles with this question.
Too answer the question "am I too fast? Unless I crash or get a ticket the answer is NO.
I think one thing to consider is how we may affect other motorists on the road. We as motorcyclists tend to think our behavior only puts us at risk because we are at a disadvantage in a crash with a cager. But in actuality we are putting others in danger when we use the streets as a race track. Other riders as well as cars on the road who may over react to our speed or over zealous lean angle. Residents along a good stretch of road loath to see us coming. Why do you think there is increased LEO presence along some of our favorite routes?
Don't get me wrong. I enjoy trying to be faster and smoother. But I do think about how I would feel if I was living on one of those roads.
Quote from: Shepcam on October 15, 2015, 08:31:53 AM
Quote from: DachshundUberAlles on October 15, 2015, 08:05:00 AM
Quote from: springer on October 14, 2015, 02:38:47 PMPM's are a wonderful thing...........................
Feel free to expand on this.
He means that there are private rides, not posted to the forum. Not everybody wants to ride with me 8)
Feel free to expand on that.
Quote from: DachshundUberAlles on October 15, 2015, 01:45:56 PM
Quote from: Shepcam on October 15, 2015, 08:31:53 AM
Quote from: DachshundUberAlles on October 15, 2015, 08:05:00 AM
Quote from: springer on October 14, 2015, 02:38:47 PMPM's are a wonderful thing...........................
Feel free to expand on this.
He means that there are private rides, not posted to the forum. Not everybody wants to ride with me 8)
Feel free to expand on that.
Because I am one of those stereotypical sport bike riders who will make fun of your chicken strips and pristine pegs, along with being just too damn fast! ::)
Quote from: DachshundUberAlles on October 15, 2015, 01:45:56 PM
Quote from: Shepcam on October 15, 2015, 08:31:53 AM
Quote from: DachshundUberAlles on October 15, 2015, 08:05:00 AM
Quote from: springer on October 14, 2015, 02:38:47 PMPM's are a wonderful thing...........................
Feel free to expand on this.
He means that there are private rides, not posted to the forum. Not everybody wants to ride with me 8)
Feel free to expand on that.
A group of like-minded individuals that have ridden together before send PM's/texts among themselves as to when/where to meet, and then ride at their chosen pace. Happens amongst the dirt riders here too.
A great topic indeed. "Too fast" for me is rather relative depending on what my comparison is to;
Ben Spies, no I'm not too fast.
My rides I host on occasion, I find myself having to slow down or have to wait on my buddies that have no "chicken-strips", although I do? Hmm.
Yes I have a bike that'll bust 100mph in first gear but I never wind it out. My appreciation for it is that it handles great and I've yet to drag the pegs.
When I ride, I am quite respectful while riding through populated areas like school zones, residential districts, etc...
I stumbled upon a road by accidentally turning at wrong left turn which turned out to be a new opportunity by far. A road that has all of the features that I love. Very technical.
I look at new roads and fun roads like I would a favorite fishing hole so to say. If you tell everyone it will get used up and kit won't be worth anything. Like if I was to post about a favorite fun road, people would flock to it and LEO's would soon be present.
Yeah I'm selfish but it's out of respect for the people that live there.
Yes I ride somewhat fast and I'm in my "comfort zone" while at riding at that level whereas if I'm running the speed limit I become dangerous by sight seeing, fumbling with GPS, iPod, satellite radio, etc.
So for me to others, ride your own ride within your comfort zone and please be respectful in congested areas 😎
It's been interesting to read things so far. Though it's obvious that there have been some nerves touched at the thought of the discussion, overall it seems to be motoring along fairly well.
Nerves, I dont have no stinkin nerves. You made a "statement" and I just called you out on it, does not mean it touched a nerve. I had hoped to stir some shit because I was bored, oh well nobody wanted to play with me. :-\
Awe, Shep. It ain't that bad. (http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/15/48192104c89855689f2112bf25cf503b.jpg)
Quote from: DachshundUberAlles on October 14, 2015, 01:02:02 PM
I can remember a few years back where there would be rides posted up in the Planned Rides section that specifically stated This will be a "spirited pace" ride and that only people in full leathers gear were invited. I notice that sort of event hasn't been posted in quite some time, seemingly gone extinct when the cohort that participated found track days.
Then there is also an "attitude" that permeates sportbike ownership, a kind of "measuring" of where you are in relation to others. I know I used to check the peg lean posts on bikes, as well as the "chicken strips", as if grinding the indicators down or getting that last millimeter of tread width scrubbed was some kind of prize winning "accomplishment" for a public road dwelling bike and rider. Heck, I was arrogant, (and stupid) enough to imagine an Ulster or Isle of Mann vibe to a ride and that being faster on public roads was actually something to brag about.
Back when those "spirited" pace rides were more common on this forum I didn't have a suitable bike to participate. Now I do. Bad timing on my part.........or is that good timing.(http://advrider.com/styles/advrider_smilies/ne_nau.gif)
As for looking back at my younger days when I probably rode too fast. I could look back and say how stupid I was, but I look back and miss those old days because they were so much fun (http://advrider.com/styles/advrider_smilies/ricky.gif) (http://advrider.com/styles/advrider_smilies/ricky.gif)
Of course if I had crashed and seriously hurt myself I might have a different view of those days.
Quote from: klaviator on October 15, 2015, 08:37:53 PM
Of course if I had crashed and seriously hurt myself I might have a different view of those days.
The needle of those kinds of memories plow in and out of my mind like a third-world, slave-labor, sewing machine, sometimes.
Thank the seeders (this is a joke, btw) their feet slip off the pedal every once in a while. :D
Quote from: DachshundUberAlles on October 15, 2015, 08:05:00 AM
Quote from: springer on October 14, 2015, 02:38:47 PMPM's are a wonderful thing...........................
Feel free to expand on this.
Okay. When I ride at a spirited pace I like to ride with others who can ride at that pace or faster. By can ride at that pace, I mean more than twisting the throttle and hanging on. There is a certain skill set involved plus a certain attitude.
The skill set needs not to be a Ben Spies set, but one a little higher than normal. One that can cope with the pace and road conditions.
By attitude I do not mean an arrogant "I am better than most", but one that is more of "I am responsible for myself and my safety".
I have found that riders with the "I am responsible for myself and my safety" show up with the correct gear for that type of riding and will slow their own pace down if the groups pace is to quick.
The ones with the "Better than most" often times will not have the right gear or more often, are unwilling to slow their pace down.
It is those riders /\ who seem to crash more often. I hate crashing, for myself and others.
I am by no means the fastest rider around or the fastest guy on this board.
I DO think I show up with a good attitude.
I am willing to lead, if my own pace is quick enough for that ride.
I have no problems riding in the middle of the pack if not.
If I am the slowest (most often that is the case ;) ) I have no problem riding in the very back.
When the pace is just to quick I have no problem parking my bike, watching, asking questions, and hopefully learning something.
On those times when I am on a ride with other folks,I think the pace is to quick for most of the riders skill set, and I think a crash is likely to happen, I will speak up, and if needed, leave to ride my own ride. Like I said above, I hate crashing, for myself and others.
That /\ is why I think PM's are good.
On rides that I do post, the pace is always slower and I am willing to slow it down even more if needed. I have no problem just cruising along and smelling the flowers. :) I enjoy every aspect of riding. Fast, slow, and in between.
Brian summed it up for me.
It got to the point that I would have be at break neck speed to get my "rush".
Got rid of the 100+ hp bikes. Started off road.
Every now and again, I can throw the 17's on the poor slow dr650. I can putt putt gingerly around a few turns from time to time.
The only thing I miss about the big inline four bikes is the passing ability. I'll just have to settle for riding a little scooter ( cross country to see the best the USA can offer).
I am not knocking sport bikes at all. I just had to kick the habit.
An old deer hunter told me once:
I started off as a deer slayer. Killed every one I seen.
I then became a trophy hunter. Let the small ones go.
Then I just enjoyed hanging out with nature. If my freezer is full, I won't shoot.
Summed up in 2 Internet memes.
The bike I have the most fun on is my KLR650. It's very slow but will run 100mph, just not with me on it.
I've made that similar statement as Buzz. My 1125R has a great passing gear as long as I'm responsible enough to let off after I pass.
It's uncomfortable to urban commute on but it's very unique.
I rarely ride it.
It just looks really cool in my kitchen.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I had a few fast bikes but when my kid got big enough we started riding dirtbikes and quads. Although my sportbikes were a thrill, I really enjoy putting around with the little guy much more.
Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk
Quote from: Shepcam on October 15, 2015, 07:37:02 PM
Nerves, I dont have no stinkin nerves. You made a "statement" and I just called you out on it, does not mean it touched a nerve. I had hoped to stir some shit because I was bored, oh well nobody wanted to play with me. :-\
Yes, I made a "statement", and you sought a confrontation. That says "touched a nerve" to me. No one else looked for such, they just contributed to the discussion. And they brought clear, non sarcastic points to that discussion.
Quote from: DachshundUberAlles on October 17, 2015, 10:03:22 AM
Quote from: Shepcam on October 15, 2015, 07:37:02 PM
Nerves, I dont have no stinkin nerves. You made a "statement" and I just called you out on it, does not mean it touched a nerve. I had hoped to stir some shit because I was bored, oh well nobody wanted to play with me. :-\
Yes, I made a "statement", and you sought a confrontation. That says "touched a nerve" to me. No one else looked for such, they just contributed to the discussion. And they brought clear, non sarcastic points to that discussion.
Here's a gentle nudge to get back on topic.