We had a great Gymkhana on Saturday and a decent turnout. With the amount of advertising we did for this there had to be a hundred people (or more) who knew about it but didn't show up for every rider who did show up.
So why don't people show up?
The number one reason is probably that people have other commitments, I get that. Life, and especially work often gets in the way of riding. So that explains a lot of people not showing up but there are plenty of other reasons as well. Here's a few that come to mind:
1. I might drop my bike.
2. I might look bad with my lack of skills.
3. Low speed riding around cones isn't relevant to "real world" riding
4. It won't be any fun.
5. I might miss a re run of Gilligan's island
6. Did I miss any???
So are these excuses valid?
1. I might drop my bike. That's right, you might. That's true every time you go for a ride. The skills you pick up at Gymkhana may prevent you from dropping it in the "real world"
2. I might look bad. If that's the case then you will also often look bad any time you ride. Besides, we won't laugh at you. ( well not too much :lol-049:)
3. Low speed riding doesn't apply to "real world riding" What can I say. You are wrong.
4. It won't be any fun. There is some truth too this. When you first try it and start wobbling around the cones it might no be fun. Stick with it and you will improve and then it WILL be fun. :DANCING-banana-032:
5. Gilligan's island? OK you got me there :lol-049:
You forgot football. So did I when we talked about a date. We used to check the schedule when we planned a big GK. :crazy:
9. My bike wont turn like that (we got 3 of those yesterday)
10. I have been riding since I was a sperm, I don't need any practice
11. I rode The Dragon and stayed in my lane MOST of the time - so I am all good
12. Riding around cones is silly, folks that are grinning are liars and fools
13. Not so much into riding as I am rolling, blipping, lookin cool 'n representin'
Quote from: dredman on September 24, 2017, 09:57:13 AM
9. My bike wont turn like that (we got 3 of those yesterday)
Some sport bikes do have a limited turning radius but a guy showed up in Falkville last time on a Hayabusa and with a little practice he made it around the course.
Yes I have ridden ONE factory bike that had ridiculous steering stops on it, that physically would not turn inside a 24 foot circle - just one, in seven years.
Don't get me started on custom bikes.......
Not sure why anyone would enjoy riding these on the street anyway? :thinking-022:
(http://www.psychobike.com/forums/attachments/suzuki-hayabusa/85976d1333077482-turbo-busa-alive-157594d1252531913-thinking-selling-08-zx14-buying-busa-cimg0395.jpg)
(http://www.custom-choppers-guide.com/images/stinkeys-bike-building-projects-21784703.jpg)
Quote from: dredman on September 24, 2017, 10:39:40 AM
Yes I have ridden ONE factory bike that had ridiculous steering stops on it, that physically would not turn inside a 24 foot circle - just one, in seven years.
I think I know the bike of which you speak 8)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/3404edc2f8e131bb1f5f9cf3aa4c0d9f.jpg)
Quote
I think I know the bike of which you speak 8)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/3404edc2f8e131bb1f5f9cf3aa4c0d9f.jpg)
One and the same!!
Well, I will put a chain on the ST4 and see. We may know of 2. It is same era and purpose. Add the dry Barnett clutch and it can flat be a hand full at slow speed.
My personal Opinion on it is.
1 The church of Football
2 Life (see #1)
3 I might drop My bike/ look bad. (I have way to much money in this bike and never spent a dime (money or time) to really learn to ride it).
I kinda remember a Quote I heard
"I have ridden 27 years. I just figured out that that I didn't have 27 years riding experience. What I had was 1 year of experience 27 times."
I personally thing that the best thing that could happen is a real license test. At least Abate got it where you have to take a written test now. Maybe they can get the law changed so that correct test answers and law are not contradictory.
Quote from: Chitza on September 24, 2017, 10:49:41 AM
Quote from: dredman on September 24, 2017, 10:39:40 AM
Yes I have ridden ONE factory bike that had ridiculous steering stops on it, that physically would not turn inside a 24 foot circle - just one, in seven years.
I think I know the bike of which you speak 8)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/3404edc2f8e131bb1f5f9cf3aa4c0d9f.jpg)
LEAN is what gets you around a corner, circle, cone, what have you...
NOT steering lock.
When I set-up a practice GP8 course I DO check it by riding through it in a up-right position AND not using ALL the steering lock.
Why?
Simple, I do the GP8 (and other courses)as a practice for me and anyone else that shows. I
WANT it to be easier...at first anyways, than a regular GP8 (or other courses) at Gymkhana.
Why easier?
Because
nothing succeeds like
success. Success
BREEDS confidence. With the confidence that you CAN do it, comes the willingness to try something HARDER, TIGHTER, FASTER. :respect-048:
Once everyone gets "okay" with the course's at GP8, I will tighten them up a bit or change them completely so the folks who show can practice things that present problems for them on the street. (This is the reason I am in favor of the "Circle of Trust" being the first course a new rider must do. It presents a minim skill level that a rider must have to do a Gymkhana. Plus it is easy to teach AND learn.)
My goal behind Gymkhana is that I, as well as others, can become
BETTER riders. :respect-048:
As far as why more folks don't show-up?
Fear, plan and simple.
Fear of dropping their bike.
Fear of ridicule.
Fear of their abilities to ride their bikes.
IF we can figure out how to remove that fear more riders will show up.
Anyway, that is my take on it.
Oh, and here are some examples of leaning in a Gymkhana course;
Even a damn Harley can do it;
https://vimeo.com/90412248
Actually, Springer is on to something. Starting the day with easier courses has always been great for me. Also, given enough space, it's best if no one parks their bike within 10 or 12' of the circle of trust, or any other course. It's a mental thing -- if I perceive something that would be bad to run into right beside the course, I get spooked.
Running a faster, easier course, then tightening it up after an hour or two, then maybe even tightening it up one more time, makes for a very good day of riding practice.
We also had one wreck because of a back brake getting too hot. We might want to mention to new riders that there is that possibility. Buzz incorporated a cone run that didn't require any trail braking, which was great thinking. :applause-003:
Fear is definitely there for most. Well explained above, damage, embarrassment, injury, you name it and each person has some. Do I want to drop 5k or more worth of bike, hell no, but through these years I have learned a lot at these events. Am I great at it, hell no, but I keep trying so I can get better. Springer is dead on, confidence only grows more confidence. We're these courses easy, not on the Wing but I tried and almost got it. The circle kicks my ass, cause I'm on a big bike, no, most likely because I'm not doing what I should while trying to navigate a battleship through a thimble.
Yasu jumped in behind me and knocked it out of the park, but it took me leading him to the water to get him to drink it. He thanked me numerous times for leading the way. Was I confident, hell no, I was thinking I'm going to drop a month old $20,000 bike out here and everyone will think I suck, but I knew Yasu would not ride if I didn't, did it give him confidence, don't know really, but afterwards he kept on. I knew he could ride it like nothing, but it took someone else leading to get him out there.
To sum it up, you all have done a great job with these for years now. Many people have learned countless skills from all of us, myself I have improved but still am not where I want to be.
Keep up the good work, and quit critiquing yourselves, you are doing the right things.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ok, to finnish my thoughts. Lunch with Grandma and church take precedence.
I posted from the Bike Shop account for a reason.
Things I see in the industry and society.
Society
1 There is a move by part of the population toward Extreme Safety (to the point of giving up/taking freedom)
I view this as a bad thing overall, but if it could be harnessed to some degree. Maybe people could be encouraged to learn more MC skills.
2 The Move of some of the younger crowd to rebel against #1.
Bama Riders. This is a bad thing because it makes people (general public/ law makers) mad. As they get more publicity in one day than we have in 7 years of trying to promote good skills and responsible riding.
3 The move to real community by most people. Hanging out with people that share similar interest.
This could be a real positive. Us old farts need to reach out somehow and invite the younger riders into our community of people. One thing we have to remember is that they didn't grow up working on things for the most part. We need to share knowledge about old things and how they work, but Mainly that you started on that Suzuki 185 or Honda 450 twin.
Industry
1 Bikes are expensive. Very expensive for a toy. Just because you ride everyday rain or shine don't mean its not a toy to most.
I see that the industry has responded in some ways. Even HD has noticed that people cant afford/will not purchase a $35k CVO like they used to. The result is finally some smaller affordable entry level bikes.
2 Put a person on the most expensive thing you can push them to finance. (maybe 1b)
Well when you put someone on an R1 or Hayabusa as a first bike maybe they will survive. Probably because they got scared so bad they don't ride it.
3 Dealer Need to promote safety. Sell starter bike with less profit built in. Industry wide this is not done.
Again to sing HD praises they are now offering MSF courses, and lower cost entry level bikes. The Japanese have some really nice stuff that is proven reliable too. If more dealerships get on the wagon it could make a difference. If learning to be a good rider is cool then more people will want to be good riders.
So what does this all mean. It means Catang5oh and Yamahammer are doing the correct thing. They both spent much effort and time to get a person to steep out and learn. Both of the people they put time in had a good day Saturday.
Springer is out there pouring his heart and time in the Thursday GP8s and we should support him by showing up when we can. We should be trying to get people out to ride.
What else? As a riding community we should encourage more dealerships to host these events. If they have an event WE have to show up and support them.
How do you encourage shops to host?
Show up and ask them to put out Fliers when we have an event somewhere.
Then show back up and thank them for supporting it if they do. Mention that we had about 50 people show up and had a great Day. Mention that several people really improved their riding skills.
Then ask them to consider hosting one in the future.
As a shop what did I want last Saturday.
I wanted to get people to my shop.
I wanted them to have a good time.
I wanted people to become better riders.
I need people to come back when they want something and purchase it from me.
Please! Don't mistake the next statement for complaining!
That even cost us a good bit of time and money to host. As it will any shop.
We considered Saturday a success. Just My .02 cent.
Well spoken.
I just learning what Gymkhana is. Maybe I can make the next one.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My personal reason for not making it this past Saturday was that it was one of my niece's 1st birthday. Who would want to miss that?
Most of the people who I have personally tried to get to come to gymkhanas think it is a waste of time, that it will be too easy, that it is boring, that they don't need to practice going 5-10 mph, or that they might drop their bike and mess it up. And with the difficulty of setting up one of the bigger events and the relative irregularity of having them it is really difficult to change these people's minds. Add into that the locations which we have them at and you get people who might be slightly interested but don't want to ride an hour or more to come to the events, especially if they don't know at least one other person who is going.
Right now I'm thinking the best way to get more people to the big events is setting more of the smaller weekly or bi-weekly get togethers like what Springer does in Hoover. But again the biggest issue with that is finding a location that will allow it. As is I will continue to look for a location here in the Huntsville area to have an event.
There was a ton of folks that didn't show, but there were a good many that did. Let's not forget the ones that do come out and get better.
As for football, we've had several over the years that were in Sept/Oct. Probably due to the heat in the earlier months.
Maybe we need to look at early spring to have the next one. The weather will be cool and folks will be ready to get out and ride. Plus if it's March/Early April, I won't have to leave early to go work at track.
I didn't ride much Saturday, but I planned to be there to take pics. I believe photos and videos helped the forum grow in the beginning. I can't help but think photos will help gymkhana grow too.
Quote from: zdc1775 on September 25, 2017, 09:45:44 AM
My personal reason for not making it this past Saturday was that it was one of my niece's 1st birthday. Who would want to miss that?
Most of the people who I have personally tried to get to come to gymkhanas think it is a waste of time, that it will be too easy, that it is boring, that they don't need to practice going 5-10 mph, or that they might drop their bike and mess it up. And with the difficulty of setting up one of the bigger events and the relative irregularity of having them it is really difficult to change these people's minds. Add into that the locations which we have them at and you get people who might be slightly interested but don't want to ride an hour or more to come to the events, especially if they don't know at least one other person who is going.
Right now I'm thinking the best way to get more people to the big events is setting more of the smaller weekly or bi-weekly get togethers like what Springer does in Hoover. But again the biggest issue with that is finding a location that will allow it. As is I will continue to look for a location here in the Huntsville area to have an event.
Ask around to the local Harley shops. HD, the Corporation, has really gotten involved in rider training the last few years. They could be interested if they see some videos of past Gymkhanas.
I know the last time I was at Rocket HD they were located in a small building with a small parking lot. If they have moved from there I am sure it was to a much bigger building with a much bigger parking lot.
Actually, that /\ could be a good idea for us in the Birmingham area too. :thinking-022:
The folks at Pinnacle Honda, were I bought my Africa Twin, are moving into a much bigger shop in Bessemer. They had fliers posted for this past Gymkhana in the shop area and showroom that another member had given them. They are another place I will look into for GP8 next spring.
Any-who, find a place and I will help you out. Due to my weird work scheduled I am off a lot more than just Saturdays and Sundays now.
Quote from: springer on September 25, 2017, 03:39:42 PMAsk around to the local Harley shops. HD, the Corporation, has really gotten involved in rider training the last few years. They could be interested if they see some videos of past Gymkhanas.
I know the last time I was at Rocket HD they were located in a small building with a small parking lot. If they have moved from there I am sure it was to a much bigger building with a much bigger parking lot.
Actually, that /\ could be a good idea for us in the Birmingham area too. :thinking-022:
The folks at Pinnacle Honda, were I bought my Africa Twin, are moving into a much bigger shop in Bessemer. They had fliers posted for this past Gymkhana in the shop area and showroom that another member had given them. They are another place I will look into for GP8 next spring.
Any-who, find a place and I will help you out. Due to my weird work scheduled I am off a lot more than just Saturdays and Sundays now.
The last time I spoke with anyone at Rocket, now Redstone, Harley they were not interested in hosting a free event as they thought it would deter people from taking their version of the MSF basic course. But that was before the new owners/managers were there so I will have to revisit that.
Other than that I have tried to get my work to allow us to use the parking lot on the weekends and also approached a few churches that friends of mine have ties to but they have all been no-go's because of liability concerns. I'm going to keep looking for somewhere that will let us have an event, even if it is a small one.
When I am able to find a location I will get in touch with you about designing/setting up a course.
Zac, be sure to explain that we do not teach anyone to ride a motorcycle. We are not competition for rider training courses. We actually refuse riders who want to "learn" to ride. That's one of the purposes for the circle of trust. You have to show us that you know how to ride before you can participate. When someone shows up wanting to learn, we direct them to a rider course, like MSF or Harley's RIDER course.
reasons for low-turnouts:
#1 is FEAR - I have heard EVERY excuse in the book, it all boils down to fear. Folks should really be terrified to ride without it - the real danger is NOT in a parking lot
As far as spots.....
I have given up on Harley dealers - they perceive us as a threat to their lucrative rider training, and we do not fit into their business model. I will not not try to SELL to anymore dealers. The smart ones get it, and we have plenty of those for now.
Been trying to put something together with Max Motorsports for years, and now they have a fresh new shop AND pavement, they are next in line for GK Birmingham.
After them, Pinnacle, they should be moving to their new shop next month.
This is really not hard, if you want a gymkhana close to you - find someone with a nice big parking lot, that has something to gain:
Churches only get a headache in return for folks scorching their lot -
Moto Dealers get eyeballs, and buyers with fond memories of times spent whizzing around in THEIR parking lot :cool08:
My apologies for not making it to Leeds on Saturday. The family was camping at the lake but I did come home to do two funerals with my Patriot Guard Rider Brothers and Sisters. It can be so heart breaking.....
On another note, I have been asked by more than 10 riders when there will be another GK around Falkville. They see me riding in this tight parking lots at funeral homes doing sharp turn-arounds while they are doing 5 point turn arounds. :respect-048:
Every time, without exception, it is a scheduling conflict for me. I'll see the ad, get excited (insert fist pump and WooHoo here), only to look at the date and get deflated. That's just the way it goes.
Perhaps there's just not a lot of interest. I get that "YOU" like it, but that doesn't mean that it is something that a majority should like or participate in. We all have types of riding that we do that very few others even remotely care about.
I've had the chance to discuss Gymkhanas with Klaviator a time or two, and we both view these events as invaluable skill builders. Even though I (and apparently many others) weren't able to make the trip to Leeds this past weekend, we owe the hosts of these events a huge THANK YOU for investing all the time, effort and money to make them happen! :applause-003:
When I was in the military, I had to complete the MSF course at least once every 3 years. When I went to take the course the first time, I wondered why I (who had ridden dirt and street bikes in the past) needed to complete the course. By the time the day was over, I understood the course's value, and I've been an ardent supporter ever since. I see gymkhanas as an extension of the MSF courses, and I support them 110%! Now, if I can just get my schedule/location and that of the next gymkhana to intersect... :crazy: